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    • Biden's Leadership and AccomplishmentsBiden's leadership led to infrastructure deals, healthcare expansions, decarbonization, record-breaking enrollment, strong economic growth, and wage gains for the poorest Americans despite low approval ratings and potential election challenge.

      President Joe Biden's leadership and ability to bring together a diverse coalition within the Democratic Party have led to significant legislative accomplishments, including infrastructure deals, healthcare expansions, and economic progress. Despite facing challenges such as inflation and low approval ratings, the Biden administration's partnerships and collaborations have resulted in a decade of infrastructure development, decarbonization, and research, as well as record-breaking healthcare enrollment and strong economic growth. The Biden team's commitment to full employment and prioritizing the economy has also defied expectations, with strong wage gains for the poorest Americans and a decrease in inequality. While Biden's approval ratings are low and he faces a potential challenge from Donald Trump in the 2024 election, the impact of his administration's policies cannot be ignored.

    • Biden's Cognitive Fitness and Age Raise Concerns for His Future in OfficeDespite being cleared of criminal wrongdoing, Biden's memory lapses and age have raised concerns about his ability to continue as president and run for re-election. Some instances of public gaffes add to these concerns, but those close to him believe he can handle the job.

      While President Joe Biden has been cleared of any criminal wrongdoing regarding classified information, concerns about his cognitive fitness have emerged, raising questions about his ability to continue serving as president and run for re-election in 2024. During a press conference, Biden acknowledged his memory lapses and addressed the age issue head-on, expressing confidence in his ability to lead the country. However, there have been instances where Biden has made public gaffes, such as calling Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi the president of Mexico. These incidents, though common for anyone, are more significant for Biden due to his age and the demands of the presidency. Despite these concerns, many who work with Biden believe he is capable of handling the job, but the distinction between being president and running for president continues to be blurred. The insistence on Biden's capability to be president is being used to stifle discussions about his ability to run for re-election, and only time will tell if Biden can overcome these challenges and continue his presidency.

    • Biden's Cautious Approach to 2024 Campaign Raises ConcernsBiden's team's reluctance to put him in high-profile events and his lackluster campaigning indicate they don't see him as a desirable asset, contrasting with other presidents. This strategy may impact their chances of winning the election.

      The Biden campaign's approach to the 2024 presidential race is raising concerns among political analysts. According to the columnist, Biden's lackluster campaigning in the past and his team's reluctance to put him in high-profile events, such as the Super Bowl interview, indicate that they do not believe he is a desirable asset for the campaign. This strategy contrasts with that of other presidents who have used such opportunities to connect with a large audience and boost their popularity. The stakes are high for Biden, as he is currently behind in most polls and needs to make up ground against Donald Trump. The team's argument that the Super Bowl interview is not worth the risk of negative coverage does not hold water, as other presidents have successfully navigated such opportunities. The Biden campaign's handling of the president's public image may ultimately impact their chances of winning the election.

    • Biden's Age a Genuine Concern for VotersDespite the Biden team's focus on less-engaged voters, concerns about Biden's age are not media-driven but genuine. Voters believe Biden is too old for the job, and his gaffes and memory lapses aren't helping. The campaign's response, limiting his exposure, may backfire.

      The Biden team's strategy to focus on political voters who aren't heavily engaged with media is not working, and voters' concerns about Biden's age are not a media invention but a genuine issue. These concerns are shaping how voters perceive Biden and his campaign, and the president's gaffes and memory lapses are not helping. Voters believe Biden is too old for the job, and he needs to persuade them otherwise. However, the campaign team's response to the president's struggles, such as holding him back from aggressive campaigning and unscripted situations, may only make things worse by limiting his exposure to voters. The Democratic Party is currently losing ground, and they need a candidate who can aggressively campaign to win back support. The concerns about Biden's age are not a media invention, but a real issue that needs to be addressed.

    • Perception of Biden's age and fitness for the jobDespite policy achievements and opposition to Trump, Biden's approval rating remains low due to concerns over his age and perceived lack of strength and competence.

      While the age of President Joe Biden may not be a concern in itself, the perception of his age and fitness for the job is a significant issue for his approval ratings and potential re-election. This perception is not just about physical frailty, but also about command, strength, and competence. Despite good policy achievements and a Democratic electorate opposed to former President Donald Trump, Biden's approval rating remains stable but low, suggesting a lack of credit being given to him for his actions. Critics argue that Democrats should focus on exploiting Trump's age and perceived confusion instead of defending Biden's, but there is a risk that this could backfire if voters are seen as ageist. Ultimately, the concern is that Biden may not be a strong enough candidate to win against Trump, and the defensive reactions from Democrats may stem from a sense of fatalism about the situation.

    • Democrats can still hold an open convention to select a new nomineeThe Democrats have the option to hold an open convention and release delegates to vote for their preferred nominee, which could lead to a successful nomination process or a chaotic event as seen in 1968.

      Despite the current political climate and speculation about the 2024 election, it's not too late for the Democrats to make significant moves. If President Biden decides to step down, the party could hold an open convention to select a new nominee, as was common practice in American history up until the late 1960s. This process would involve delegates, who currently pledge their support to a candidate, being released to vote for whom they choose at the convention. The last open Democratic convention was in 1968, which resulted in a divisive and chaotic event. However, most conventions have been more successful, leading to the nomination of prominent figures like Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt. The ultimate goal of a convention is to "organize victory," as Senator Charles Sumner put it, ensuring that the party is well-prepared to face the upcoming election.

    • Democratic Party's nomination dilemma with Vice President HarrisThe Democratic Party weighs Harris's strengths and weaknesses against other potential nominees, balancing concerns about party division and electability.

      The Democratic Party faces a significant decision regarding their nomination for the presidency, with Vice President Kamala Harris being a contender. While some Democrats have concerns about her ability to be a stronger candidate and fear the potential party division if she is not chosen, others see her as a capable politician with great potential. The party must consider Harris's strengths and weaknesses, as well as the talents of other potential nominees, to make the best decision for victory. Ultimately, the contrast between a Democratic ticket that listens to voters and a Republican ticket that denies election outcomes is an important one, and the party's ability to recruit strong candidates has contributed to recent electoral successes.

    • Strategic candidate selection in politicsDemocrats and Republicans chose candidates strategically in 2022, with Democrats focusing on district fit and Republicans aligning with Trump. Balancing order and chaos is crucial for parties, and engaging in dialogue about leadership and strategy is encouraged.

      Political parties need to be strategic and thoughtful in their candidate selection process. In the 2022 elections, Democrats carefully chose candidates who fit their districts and states to secure victories, while Republicans chose more extreme candidates aligned with former President Donald Trump. This discussion underscores the importance of strategic decision-making and the potential consequences of ignoring it. The speaker expresses concern about the possibility of Trump winning the 2024 presidency and the potential fallout that could ensue. They argue that Democrats, including President Biden, should consider stepping down as a way to pass the baton to the next generation of leaders. Furthermore, the speaker suggests that parties must strike a balance between order and chaos, avoiding both excessive rigidity and disarray. The speaker also encourages listeners to engage in a dialogue about these topics, acknowledging that there will likely be various perspectives and disagreements. They have set up a voicemail box and email address for listeners to share their thoughts. Overall, the discussion emphasizes the importance of strategic decision-making and adaptability in political parties.

    Recent Episodes from The Ezra Klein Show

    How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work

    How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work

    After President Biden’s rough performance at the first presidential debate, the question of an open convention has roared to the front of Democratic politics. But how would an open convention work? What would be its risks? What would be its rewards? 

    In February, after I first made the case for an open Democratic convention, I interviewed Elaine Kamarck to better understand what an open convention would look like. She literally wrote the book on how we choose presidential candidates, “Primary Politics: Everything You Need to Know About How America Nominates Its Presidential Candidates.” But her background here isn’t just theory. She’s worked on four presidential campaigns and on 10 nominating conventions — for both Democrats and Republicans. She’s a member of the Democratic National Committee’s Rules Committee. And her explanation of the mechanics and dynamics of open conventions was, for me, extremely helpful. It’s even more relevant now than it was then. 

    Mentioned:

    The Lincoln Miracle by Ed Achorn

    Book Recommendations:

    All the King’s Men by Robert Penn Warren

    The Making of the President 1960 by Theodore H. White

    Quiet Revolution by Byron E. Shafer

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Kristin Lin. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    This conversation was recorded in February 2024.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJuly 02, 2024

    What Is the Democratic Party For?

    What Is the Democratic Party For?

    Top Democrats have closed ranks around Joe Biden since the debate. Should they? 

    Mentioned:

    This Isn’t All Joe Biden’s Fault” by Ezra Klein

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” with Elaine Kamarck on The Ezra Klein Show

    The Hollow Parties by Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This audio essay was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-Checking by Jack McCordick and Michelle Harris. Mixing by Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, Elias Isquith and Aman Sahota. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 30, 2024

    After That Debate, the Risk of Biden Is Clear

    After That Debate, the Risk of Biden Is Clear

    I joined my Times Opinion colleagues Ross Douthat and Michelle Cottle to discuss the debate — and what Democrats might do next.

    Mentioned:

    The Biden and Trump Weaknesses That Don’t Get Enough Attention” by Ross Douthat

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!” with Matthew Yglesias on The Ezra Klein Show

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” on The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” with Elaine Kamarck on The Ezra Klein Show

    Gretchen Whitmer on The Interview

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump” with Sam Rosenfeld and Daniel Schlozman on The Ezra Klein Show

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 28, 2024

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

    Donald Trump has made inflation a central part of his campaign message. At his rallies, he rails against “the Biden inflation tax” and “crooked Joe’s inflation nightmare,” and promises that in a second Trump term, “inflation will be in full retreat.”

    But if you look at Trump’s actual policies, that wouldn’t be the case at all. Trump has a bold, ambitious agenda to make prices much, much higher. He’s proposing a 10 percent tariff on imported goods, and a 60 percent tariff on products from China. He wants to deport huge numbers of immigrants. And he’s made it clear that he’d like to replace the Federal Reserve chair with someone more willing to take orders from him. It’s almost unimaginable to me that you would run on this agenda at a time when Americans are so mad about high prices. But I don’t think people really know that’s what Trump is vowing to do.

    So to drill into the weeds of Trump’s plans, I decided to call up an old friend. Matt Yglesias is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist and the author of the Slow Boring newsletter, where he’s been writing a lot about Trump’s proposals. We also used to host a policy podcast together, “The Weeds.”

    In this conversation, we discuss what would happen to the economy, especially in terms of inflation, if Trump actually did what he says he wants to do; what we can learn from how Trump managed the economy in his first term; and why more people aren’t sounding the alarm.

    Mentioned:

    Trump’s new economic plan is terrible” by Matthew Yglesias

    Never mind: Wall Street titans shake off qualms and embrace Trump” by Sam Sutton

    How Far Trump Would Go” by Eric Cortellessa

    Book Recommendations:

    Take Back the Game by Linda Flanagan

    1177 B.C. by Eric H. Cline

    The Rise of the G.I. Army, 1940-1941 by Paul Dickson

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero, Adam Posen and Michael Strain.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 21, 2024

    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

    The biggest divide in our politics isn’t between Democrats and Republicans, or even left and right. It’s between people who follow politics closely, and those who pay almost no attention to it. If you’re in the former camp — and if you’re reading this, you probably are — the latter camp can seem inscrutable. These people hardly ever look at political news. They hate discussing politics. But they do care about issues and candidates, and they often vote.

    As the 2024 election takes shape, this bloc appears crucial to determining who wins the presidency. An NBC News poll from April found that 15 percent of voters don’t follow political news, and Donald Trump was winning them by 26 points.

    Yanna Krupnikov studies exactly this kind of voter. She’s a professor of communication and media at the University of Michigan and an author, with John Barry Ryan, of “The Other Divide: Polarization and Disengagement in American Politics.” The book examines how the chasm between the deeply involved and the less involved shapes politics in America. I’ve found it to be a helpful guide for understanding one of the most crucial dynamics emerging in this year’s election: the swing to Trump from President Biden among disengaged voters.

    In this conversation, we discuss how politically disengaged voters relate to politics; where they get their information about politics and how they form opinions; and whether major news events, like Trump’s recent conviction, might sway them.

    Mentioned:

    The ‘Need for Chaos’ and Motivations to Share Hostile Political Rumors” by Michael Bang Petersen, Mathias Osmundsen and Kevin Arceneaux

    Hooked by Markus Prior

    The Political Influence of Lifestyle Influencers? Examining the Relationship Between Aspirational Social Media Use and Anti-Expert Attitudes and Beliefs” by Ariel Hasell and Sedona Chinn

    One explanation for the 2024 election’s biggest mystery” by Eric Levitz

    Book Recommendations:

    What Goes Without Saying by Taylor N. Carlson and Jaime E. Settle

    Through the Grapevine by Taylor N. Carlson

    Sorry I’m Late, I Didn’t Want to Come by Jessica Pan

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 18, 2024

    The View From the Israeli Right

    The View From the Israeli Right

    On Tuesday I got back from an eight-day trip to Israel and the West Bank. I happened to be there on the day that Benny Gantz resigned from the war cabinet and called on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to schedule new elections, breaking the unity government that Israel had had since shortly after Oct. 7.

    There is no viable left wing in Israel right now. There is a coalition that Netanyahu leads stretching from right to far right and a coalition that Gantz leads stretching from center to right. In the early months of the war, Gantz appeared ascendant as support for Netanyahu cratered. But now Netanyahu’s poll numbers are ticking back up.

    So one thing I did in Israel was deepen my reporting on Israel’s right. And there, Amit Segal’s name kept coming up. He’s one of Israel’s most influential political analysts and the author of “The Story of Israeli Politics” is coming out in English.

    Segal and I talked about the political differences between Gantz and Netanyahu, the theory of security that’s emerging on the Israeli right, what happened to the Israeli left, the threat from Iran and Hezbollah and how Netanyahu is trying to use President Biden’s criticism to his political advantage.

    Mentioned:

    Biden May Spur Another Netanyahu Comeback” by Amit Segal

    Book Recommendations:

    The Years of Lyndon Johnson Series by Robert A. Caro

    The World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig

    The Object of Zionism by Zvi Efrat

    The News from Waterloo by Brian Cathcart

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 14, 2024

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    There’s something weird happening with the economy. On a personal level, most Americans say they’re doing pretty well right now. And according to the data, that’s true. Wages have gone up faster than inflation. Unemployment is low, the stock market is generally up so far this year, and people are buying more stuff.

    And yet in surveys, people keep saying the economy is bad. A recent Harris poll for The Guardian found that around half of Americans think the S. & P. 500 is down this year, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high. Fifty-six percent think we’re in a recession.

    There are many theories about why this gap exists. Maybe political polarization is warping how people see the economy or it’s a failure of President Biden’s messaging, or there’s just something uniquely painful about inflation. And while there’s truth in all of these, it felt like a piece of the story was missing.

    And for me, that missing piece was an article I read right before the pandemic. An Atlantic story from February 2020 called “The Great Affordability Crisis Breaking America.” It described how some of Americans’ biggest-ticket expenses — housing, health care, higher education and child care — which were already pricey, had been getting steadily pricier for decades.

    At the time, prices weren’t the big topic in the economy; the focus was more on jobs and wages. So it was easier for this trend to slip notice, like a frog boiling in water, quietly, putting more and more strain on American budgets. But today, after years of high inflation, prices are the biggest topic in the economy. And I think that explains the anger people feel: They’re noticing the price of things all the time, and getting hammered with the reality of how expensive these things have become.

    The author of that Atlantic piece is Annie Lowrey. She’s an economics reporter, the author of Give People Money, and also my wife. In this conversation, we discuss how the affordability crisis has collided with our post-pandemic inflationary world, the forces that shape our economic perceptions, why people keep spending as if prices aren’t a strain and what this might mean for the presidential election.

    Mentioned:

    It Will Never Be a Good Time to Buy a House” by Annie Lowrey

    Book Recommendations:

    Franchise by Marcia Chatelain

    A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel

    Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 07, 2024

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    After Donald Trump was convicted last week in his hush-money trial, Republican leaders wasted no time in rallying behind him. There was no chance the Republican Party was going to replace Trump as their nominee at this point. Trump has essentially taken over the G.O.P.; his daughter-in-law is even co-chair of the Republican National Committee.

    How did the Republican Party get so weak that it could fall victim to a hostile takeover?

    Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld are the authors of “The Hollow Parties: The Many Pasts and Disordered Present of American Party Politics,” which traces how both major political parties have been “hollowed out” over the decades, transforming once-powerful gatekeeping institutions into mere vessels for the ideologies of specific candidates. And they argue that this change has been perilous for our democracy.

    In this conversation, we discuss how the power of the parties has been gradually chipped away; why the Republican Party became less ideological and more geared around conflict; the merits of a stronger party system; and more.

    Mentioned:

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” by The Ezra Klein Show with Elaine Kamarck

    Book Recommendations:

    The Two Faces of American Freedom by Aziz Rana

    Rainbow’s End by Steven P. Erie

    An American Melodrama by Lewis Chester, Godfrey Hodgson, Bruce Page

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show’‘ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker, Kate Sinclair and Rollin Hu. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 04, 2024

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    The steady dings of notifications. The 40 tabs that greet you when you open your computer in the morning. The hundreds of unread emails, most of them spam, with subject lines pleading or screaming for you to click. Our attention is under assault these days, and most of us are familiar with the feeling that gives us — fractured, irritated, overwhelmed.

    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

    In this conversation, we talk about how the 20th-century study of attention laid the groundwork for today’s attention economy, the connection between changing ideas of attention and changing ideas of the self, how we even define attention (this episode is worth listening to for Burnett’s collection of beautiful metaphors alone), whether the concern over our shrinking attention spans is simply a moral panic, what it means to teach attention and more.

    Mentioned:

    Friends of Attention

    The Battle for Attention” by Nathan Heller

    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

    Book Recommendations:

    Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll

    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

    The Confidence-Man by Herman Melville

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 31, 2024

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    A.I.-generated art has flooded the internet, and a lot of it is derivative, even boring or offensive. But what could it look like for artists to collaborate with A.I. systems in making art that is actually generative, challenging, transcendent?

    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

    Mentioned:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

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    Is an 80-year-old Biden still the best bet against Trump?

    Is an 80-year-old Biden still the best bet against Trump?

    With President Biden finally declaring last week that he's running for re-election, and Donald Trump still the leader of the Republican Party, America is finding itself in a state of déjà vu.... It's the rematch contest that nobody seems to want. So why is it happening? And could Biden win a second round?

    This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. Subscribe today: thetimes.co.uk/storiesofourtimes.

    Guest: Alistair Dawber, Washington Correspondent, The Times and The Sunday Times.

    Host: Luke Jones.

    Clips: Global News, Fox News, NBC News, NBC Today, JoeBiden.com, Marianne Williamson, Telegraph, MSNBC, BBC News.



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    Bill Lueders: Wisconsin's High Stakes Supreme Court Race

    Bill Lueders: Wisconsin's High Stakes Supreme Court Race

    With abortion and election integrity on the line, Democrats got the opponent they wanted for the most consequential election of 2023. Plus, Joe Biden at 80 is coming into his own presidency. The view from Wisconsin: Bill Lueders joins Charlie Sykes today.

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    Ep. 167 - The Continued Persecution Of A Christian Baker

    Ep. 167 - The Continued Persecution Of A Christian Baker

    Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop is back in court. This time for refusing to bake a “gender transition” cake. Why won’t the LGBT lobby leave this guy alone? Also, should there be a maximum age limit for the presidency? Finally, what is the worst Christmas song of all time? Date: 12-21-2018

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    S4E23: The Most Controversial Vaccine Advocate & Uncovering Conspiracies: RFK Jr. with Dick Russell

    S4E23: The Most Controversial Vaccine Advocate & Uncovering Conspiracies: RFK Jr. with Dick Russell

    Dick Russell is the #1 New York Times' bestselling author of 63 Documents the Government Doesn't Want You to Read and American Conspiracies: Lies, Lies, and More Dirty Lies that the Government Tells Us with Jesse Ventura, and the new book The Real RFK Jr.: Trials of a Truth Warrior.

    Russell shares his experience working with Jesse Ventura and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The conversation centers around RFK Jr.'s stance on vaccines and his chances of winning the Democratic nomination.

    We ask Russell about the government's ability to cover up conspiracies and how the media can help uncover the truth. We also discuss RFK Jr.'s position on vaccines and the negative media coverage he has received. The most valuable lesson from this podcast is that RFK Jr. is not an anti-vaxxer but wants safer vaccines and more rigorous testing. Russell also explains that vaccine mandates violate First Amendment rights. 

    Russell believes that RFK Jr. has a chance of winning the nomination, especially if Biden decides not to run for re-election. They also mentioned RFK Jr.'s physical fitness, which has been documented in photos.

    Jesse Ventura and Writing Books [00:00:30] Naresh and Dick Russell discuss how they met Jesse Ventura and wrote books with him, including "American Conspiracies: Lies, Lies, and More Dirty Lies That the Government Tells Us."

    RFK Jr.'s Background and Stance on Vaccines [00:04:35] Dick Russell talks about Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s background, including his father's assassination, his addiction issues, and his work as an environmental advocate. They also discuss RFK Jr.'s stance on vaccines and his call for safer vaccines.

    The Government's Involvement in Conspiracies and Lies [00:07:22] Naresh and Dick Russell discuss how the government can get away with making up stories about assassinations and other events, and how the media often fails to uncover the truth. They also talk about the government's involvement in conspiracies and lies.

    Website: www.dickrussell.org

    RFK Jr.'s Stance on Vaccines [00:13:19] Dick Russell talks about RFK Jr.'s moral obligation to investigate vaccines and the cover-up by companies and agencies.

    RFK Jr.'s Political Views [00:15:08] RFK Jr. is a Kennedy Democrat who wants to revive the values of his uncle and father. He appeals to independents and libertarians.

    RFK Jr.'s Chance of Winning the Democratic Nomination [00:17:21] RFK Jr. has a chance of winning the Democratic nomination if Biden doesn't enter the New Hampshire primary. The mainstream media is attacking him because they're afraid he'll appeal to enough people to get elected.