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    Lessons from scaling Uber and Opendoor | Brian Tolkin (Head of Product at Opendoor, ex-Uber)

    enAugust 04, 2024
    What is Brian Tolkin's role at Open Door?
    How did Brian transition from operations to product management?
    What key qualities did Brian emphasize for product leadership?
    Who was a significant mentor for Brian in his career?
    What advice does Brian give for effective product reviews?

    Podcast Summary

    • Operations background in product leadershipAn operations background can equip product leaders with valuable insights into business operations, enabling them to build scalable technologies and foster effective collaboration between teams.

      Having a background in operations can make for an effective product leader. Brian Tolkin, the head of product and design at Open Door, shares his experience of starting in operations at Uber and eventually transitioning into product, where he led the launch of Uber Pool and took it global. He emphasizes that having a deep understanding of how a business operates from an operational standpoint provides valuable insights when building scalable technologies. Additionally, he stresses the importance of staying calm under pressure and fostering a harmonious relationship between product and operations teams for optimal business success.

    • Product Operations, Local KnowledgeEffective communication and collaboration between centralized product teams and decentralized operations teams is crucial for global product success. Local knowledge and human intervention are important in implementing features in global markets, especially in the early days of new concepts.

      Effective communication and collaboration between centralized product teams and decentralized operations teams are crucial for global product success. This was exemplified at Uber, where a formalized product operations function was established to strengthen the bidirectional feedback loop between teams and help implement features in global markets. However, this concept was not unique to Uber, as similar roles had existed at other tech companies. Another key insight gained from the discussion was the importance of local knowledge and human intervention in the early days of Uber's surge pricing system. GM's in each city controlled the parameters of surge pricing, allowing them to account for local events and optimize for their specific markets. This manual approach was a function of the newness of the concept, the belief in local city teams' expertise, and the technical constraints of building a fully dynamic, always-on geospatial aware pricing system. Additionally, the speaker shared some entertaining stories from their time at Uber, including the origin of the name "UberX" and the stressful experience of launching UberPool in China. These stories illustrate the intense dedication and long hours required to bring innovative products to market and the unique memories that come from overcoming significant challenges.

    • Product-Operations alignmentClear communication and mutual respect between product and operations teams are crucial for a successful business. Technology can provide leverage, but operational challenges require continuous optimization and experimentation.

      Product and operations teams must have mutual respect and clear communication to build a successful business. The product team should focus on where technology can provide the most leverage, while the operations team handles the complexities of the real world. At Open Door, the focus was on a seller-focused digital platform to buy and sell real estate, offering simplicity and certainty by making all-cash offers. However, as the business grew, operational challenges arose, such as validating driver's licenses at scale. The solution was to integrate technology, allowing for automatic validation and freeing up resources for other tasks. While operations may be seen as a sign of inefficiency, it's important to remember that there will always be new challenges to tackle. The key is to continuously optimize and experiment, ultimately driving the business forward.

    • Product ReviewsProduct reviews are opportunities for intellectual conversations aimed at improving products and aligning teams. Set clear goals, communicate context, create a comfortable culture, and invite a diverse group for effective discussions.

      Product reviews are an essential tool for product and operations-led companies to improve their products and align teams. These meetings should not be seen as intimidating "firing squads," but rather as opportunities for intellectual conversations aimed at making the product better. To make product reviews effective and less intimidating, it's crucial to set clear goals, communicate context, and create a culture where team members feel comfortable sharing their perspectives. Inviting a small, diverse group of team members and maintaining a consistent cadence can also help foster productive discussions. Ultimately, product reviews are about collaboration, understanding the customer's perspective, and working together to solve problems and create better products.

    • Jobs to be Done frameworkImplementing Jobs to be Done framework improves product development by encouraging customer perspective and understanding, but requires time, effort, and cultural institutionalization.

      Implementing the Jobs to be Done (JTBD) framework can significantly improve the way a team approaches product development by encouraging thoughtful and intentional consideration of the customer's perspective and context. This framework not only helps in understanding the problem the customer is trying to solve but also considers the external factors influencing their decision-making process. The implementation of JTBD involves creating templates and cultural internalization, which sets expectations and makes it easier for people to work off a common framework. However, it's important to recognize that implementing the framework takes time and effort, and the content requires thoughtful conversation and cultural institutionalization. The template might be the same, but the content and understanding of the job to be done evolve over time. It's essential to avoid being too dogmatic about a single framework and instead choose the right one for the job. For teams looking to learn more about JTBD, resources like blogs and internal examples of successful implementation can be helpful. When it comes to experimentation, especially with low sample sizes, it's crucial to have a solid understanding of the problem, perform power analysis, and ensure the runtime of the experiment is acceptable. Some experiments may be more important and worth investing in despite the challenges of low sample sizes.

    • Intuition vs Data-driven Decision MakingIntuition and experimentation are crucial in product development, but it's important to recognize their limitations and be open to testing hypotheses when possible. Trusting intuition and shipping the product can be the right choice if there's a reasonable feedback loop to understand if the intuition was correct.

      While data-driven decision making is important, intuition and experimentation also play a crucial role in product development. When faced with a challenge where testing assumptions is not an option, trusting intuition and shipping the product can be the right choice, as long as there's a reasonable feedback loop to understand if the intuition was correct. However, it's essential to recognize the limitations of intuition and be open to testing hypotheses when possible. Companies like OpenDoor and Zillow, despite having significant reach and resources, have learned that mastering various functions from product development to operations and risk management is necessary for success in complex businesses.

    • Leadership skillsStay focused on core jobs, remain calm under pressure, learn from past experiences, seek out other people's stories, and find the kernel of truth in ambiguity.

      Staying focused on the core jobs to be done for your customers and maintaining a calm demeanor under pressure are essential skills for leaders. When faced with competition or stressful situations, it's important to remember that you're never as good or bad as you think you are, and learning from past experiences can help you navigate future challenges. Additionally, seeking out other people's stories and understanding that the journey is not linear can provide valuable insights. In the realm of product development, finding the kernel of truth in a sea of ambiguity is crucial, and it may involve saying no to good ideas that don't align with the core job. An example of this principle in action can be found in the early days of Uber, where the company prioritized connecting riders and drivers, pricing transactions, and handling payments over building sophisticated tooling, infrastructure, or growth teams.

    • Early stage product growthFocus on growing user base and liquidity, even with high customer acquisition costs. Listen to written feedback and adapt strategies from failures.

      In the early stages of building a product company, it's important to focus on liquidity and growing the user base, even if customer acquisition costs are high. Written down feedback and ideas are crucial for making informed decisions and ensuring that everyone's voice is heard. Failures are opportunities to learn and adapt strategies. When building teams, it's essential to consider the unique skill sets of potential hires and how they match the problem at hand. Brian recommended books like "Shoe Dog," "Black Swan," "Design of Everyday Things," and "Chantaran." He enjoys sports documentaries on Netflix and recently discovered the Fi color GPS tracker for dogs.

    • AI news apps, mentorsStaying updated on industry trends through AI news apps and seeking guidance from mentors can contribute significantly to a successful product management career.

      Staying curious and seeking out mentors have been key factors in Brian's successful product management career. He mentioned his love for the AI news app Particle, which keeps him updated on industry happenings. Brian also highlighted the importance of Jeff Holden, a mentor who supported him early in his product journey and helped him grow. In an interesting turn of events, Brian shared a story about his unconventional interview at Uber on July 4th, which involved a grueling gauntlet interview with Travis Kalanick and other team members. Despite the challenges, Brian was ultimately offered the job and went on to have a successful tenure at the company. You can connect with Brian on Twitter and LinkedIn, and he encourages feedback on Open Door's product. If you have a home to sell, consider using Open Door as well. Listeners can be helpful by providing feedback on the podcast or sharing what they learned from Brian's experiences.

    Recent Episodes from Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

    The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)

    The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)

    Camille Fournier is the author of The Manager’s Path, which many consider the definitive guide for navigating one’s career path in tech. Camille was previously the CTO of Rent the Runway, VP of Technology at Goldman Sachs, Head of Platform Engineering at Two Sigma, and Global Head of Engineering and Architecture at JPMorgan Chase. She is about to release new newest book, Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • What product managers do that annoys engineers

    • Why major rewrites are a trap

    • Why you should have fewer one-on-ones

    • Strategies for organizing and working with platform teams

    • Tips for new managers

    • Advice for transitioning from individual contributor to manager

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity

    CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/engineering-leadership-camille-fournier

    Where to find Camille Fournier:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812/

    • Website: https://skamille.medium.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Camille’s background

    (02:17) Common annoyances between PMs and engineers

    (07:09) Avoiding the telephone game

    (08:05) Hoarding ideas and over-engineering

    (09:55) The importance of involving engineers in ideation

    (11:37) The middle-person dilemma

    (14:21) Rewriting systems: a big trap?

    (20:40) Engineering leadership lessons

    (36:02) Moving from IC to management

    (40:32) One-on-one meetings

    (45:10) Pushing beyond comfort zones

    (45:27) Building a balanced work culture

    (48:01) Effective time management strategies

    (54:15) Advice for platform team success

    (01:02:42) Platform team responsibilities

    (01:04:43) When to form a platform team

    (01:07:02) Thriving on a platform team

    (01:12:48) AI corner

    (01:17:03) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Referenced:

    Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders: https://www.amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642/

    The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change: https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897

    97 Things Every Engineering Manager Should Know: Collective Wisdom from the Experts: https://www.amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903

    • Avoiding the Rewrite Trap: https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e

    • Levelsio on X: https://x.com/levelsio

    • Pieter Levels on the Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtjKbXKqbg

    • GraphQL: https://graphql.org/

    New Blue Sun by André 3000 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/33Ek6daAL3oXyQIV1uoItD

    • Musk’s 5 Steps to Cut Internal Bureaucracy at Tesla and SpaceX: https://icecreates.com/insight/musk-s-5-steps-to-cut-internal-bureaucracy-at-tesla-and-spacex-you-may-say-it-s-his-algorithm/

    • Ian Nowland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inowland/

    • Studio Pulls ‘Megalopolis’ Trailer Using Fake Quotes from Famed Movie Critics: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/studio-pulls-megalopolis-trailer-using-fake-quotes-from-famed-movie-critics_n_66c74046e4b0f1ca469413c7

    • Claude 2: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-2

    What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful: https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304

    When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times: https://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438

    Alien: Romulus: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18412256/

    • Whoop: https://www.whoop.com

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”)

    Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”)

    Phyl Terry is the author of Never Search Alone, which I’ve seen so many people reference as the most impactful guide they read for finding a job. Phyl was on the founding team of the first company Amazon acquired back in the ’90s and then was CEO of pioneering product consulting firm Creative Good, with companies like Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft as customers. Today, Phyl is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, which 20 years ago pioneered bringing councils to senior product leaders and GMs in Silicon Valley. That’s their day job—in addition to that, Phyl runs a free global community for job seekers based on their latest book. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why you should never search for a job alone

    • How job search councils work

    • How to determine your “candidate-market fit”

    • How to conduct a listening tour

    • Creating your job mission and OKRs

    • How to negotiate job offers

    • The art of asking for help

    • Tactics for effective networking and interviewing

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

    Sprig—Build products for people, not data points

    Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/land-your-dream-phyl-terry

    Where to find Phyl Terry:

    • X: https://x.com/phylterry

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phylterry/

    • Website: https://www.phyl.org/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Phyl’s background

    (01:58) The concept of job search councils

    (04:27) The power of community in job searching

    (08:55) The scale and structure of job search councils

    (12:27) The impact of job search councils

    (20:19) The concept of candidate-market fit

    (22:50) Writing a Mnookin two-pager

    (24:37) Conducting listening tours

    (30:12) Creating a focused candidate-market fit

    (36:20) Advice on finding the right stage of company for you

    (40:37) Identifying your unique path

    (45:30) Navigating tough job markets

    (49:07) Playing to win

    (53:36) Negotiation tactics for job offers

    (01:05:12) The gratitude house exercise

    (01:10:48) The power of asking for help

    (01:19:18) How to ask for help

    (01:28:40) Final thoughts and advice

    (01:38:21) Lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How LinkedIn became interesting: The inside story | Tomer Cohen (CPO at LinkedIn)

    How LinkedIn became interesting: The inside story | Tomer Cohen (CPO at LinkedIn)

    Tomer Cohen is the chief product officer at LinkedIn, responsible for setting the company’s product strategy, leading product development, user experience design, business development, content creation, and customer operations. He also hosts the Building One podcast, where he interviews exceptional builders across various disciplines. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How LinkedIn transformed its feed into an engaging content and social platform

    • Tomer’s famous “We might be wrong, but we are not confused” mantra

    • The importance of conviction and passion in product leadership

    • LinkedIn’s approach to experimenting with and implementing AI features

    • Lessons from Tomer’s rapid career progression at LinkedIn

    • Strategies for embracing AI in product development

    Brought to you by:

    Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen

    Where to find Tomer Cohen:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomercohen/

    • Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-one-with-tomer-cohen/id1726672498

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Introduction to Tomer Cohen and his role at LinkedIn

    (02:28) The mantra “We might be wrong, but we are not confused”

    (06:45) Clarity of thought and focus

    (13:03) Setting ambitious goals and overdelivering

    (16:18) Transforming LinkedIn’s feed: strategy and execution

    (22:03) Running experiments at scale

    (26:24) Goal setting and identifying opportunities 

    (30:58) AI’s role in LinkedIn’s evolution

    (35:38) The AI-first mindset at LinkedIn

    (35:38) Developing an AI-first mindset

    (44:49) Letting go of your roadmaps and allowing room for exploration

    (49:12) Career growth and personal insights

    (55:01) Takeaways

    (56:39) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The original growth hacker reveals his secrets | Sean Ellis (author of “Hacking Growth”)

    The original growth hacker reveals his secrets | Sean Ellis (author of “Hacking Growth”)

    Sean Ellis is one of the earliest and most influential thinkers and operators in growth. He coined the term “growth hacking,” invented the ICE prioritization framework, was one of the earliest people to use freemium as a growth lever, and, most famously, developed the Sean Ellis Test for product-market fit (which a large percentage of founders use today to track if they’ve found PMF). Over the course of his career, Sean was head of growth at Dropbox and Eventbrite; helped companies like Microsoft and Nubank refine their growth strategy; was on the founding team of LogMeIn, which sold for over $4 billion; and is the author of one of the most popular growth books of all time, Hacking Growth, which has sold over 750,000 copies. In our conversation, he shares:

    • The proper use of the Sean Ellis Test for measuring product-market fit

    • How to increase your activation and retention rates

    • How to select the right North Star metric for your business

    • Case studies from his work growing Dropbox and other products

    • How growth strategy has changed over the past decade

    • How AI is impacting growth efforts

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI

    CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

    Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-original-growth-hacker-sean-ellis

    Where to find Sean Ellis:

    • X: https://x.com/seanellis

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanellis/

    • Website: https://www.seanellis.me/

    • Substack: https://substack.com/@seanellis

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Sean’s background

    (02:18) The Sean Ellis test explained

    (06:28) The 40% rule

    (08:06) Case study: improving product-market fit

    (12:34) Understanding and leveraging customer feedback

    (16:50) Challenges and nuances of product-market fit

    (22:22) When to use the Sean Ellis Test

    (23:46) When not to use the Sean Ellis Test and other caveats

    (27:13) Defining your own threshold and how the Sean Ellis Test came about

    (36:13) Tools for implementing the survey 

    (37:30) Transitioning from surveys to retention cohorts

    (39:13) Nubank’s approach

    (40:18) Case study: Superhuman’s strategy for increasing product-market fit

    (45:18) Coining the term “growth hacking”

    (48:24) How to approach growth

    (57:25) Improving activation and onboarding

    (01:05:17) Identifying effective growth channels

    (01:10:28) The power of customer conversations

    (01:12:43) Developing the Dropbox referral program

    (01:14:47) The importance of word of mouth

    (01:15:23) Freemium models and engagement

    (01:19:21) Picking a North Star metric

    (01:24:30) The evolution of growth strategies

    (01:27:12) The ICE and RICE frameworks

    (01:30:11) AI’s role in growth and experimentation

    (01:32:52) Final thoughts and lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product)

    Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product)

    Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:

    • Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style

    • Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact

    • Why chaos can be good

    • Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn

    • Why you should learn to “poke the bear”

    • Balancing product release speed with quality

    • Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design

    • Advice for founders on building company culture

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev

    Where to find Vlad Loktev:

    • X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Vlad’s background

    (02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb

    (04:28) Skills and mindsets for success

    (11:03) Impact-driven mindset

    (13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy 

    (17:54) “Poking the bear”

    (22:46) Psychological tools for leadership

    (30:08) Building and scaling teams

    (36:12) Letting fires burn

    (47:34) Embracing chaos

    (54:40) The unsell email strategy

    (01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization

    (01:05:38) The importance of company culture

    (01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management

    (01:26:41) Failure corner

    (01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How to consistently go viral: Nikita Bier’s playbook for winning at consumer apps (co-founder of TBH, Gas, advisor, investor)

    How to consistently go viral: Nikita Bier’s playbook for winning at consumer apps (co-founder of TBH, Gas, advisor, investor)

    Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth

    • Strategies for building viral consumer apps

    • Why teens are such a great audience

    • Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas

    • The challenge of creating durable social products

    • His experience working as a PM at Facebook

    • Advice for founders on building consumer apps

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier

    Where to find Nikita Bier:

    • X: https://x.com/nikitabier 

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier

    • Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Nikita’s background 

    (06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline

    (08:42) Transition to consumer apps

    (13:45) The birth of TBH

    (16:43) Building for teens vs. adults

    (20:00) TBH’s viral success

    (32:18) Leveraging live chat

    (34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH

    (37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook

    (42:19) Big-tech product management

    (48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”

    (51:49) The Tim Cook painting story

    (53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture

    (58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges

    (59:46) Addressing criticism

    (01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax

    (01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned

    (01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas

    (01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps

    (01:22:35) The VC route

    (01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18

    (01:26:53) The success of Dupe

    (01:31:53) Advice for startup founders

    (01:34:14) Work with Nikita

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Succeeding as an introvert, building zero-to-one, and why you should PM your career like you PM your product | Deb Liu (CEO of Ancestry, ex-Facebook, PayPal, eBay)

    Succeeding as an introvert, building zero-to-one, and why you should PM your career like you PM your product | Deb Liu (CEO of Ancestry, ex-Facebook, PayPal, eBay)

    Deb Liu is the CEO of Ancestry and former longtime VP of Product at Facebook. At Facebook, Deb led the creation of Facebook Marketplace, developed the first mobile ad product for apps, built the company’s games business, and launched Facebook Pay. She’s also held leadership roles at PayPal and eBay, serves on the board of Intuit, and is the author of Take Back Your Power. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why you should PM your career like you PM your product

    • Strategies for incubating new products within large companies

    • Creating a successful 30-60-90-day plan when starting a new job

    • The pitfalls of perfectionism

    • The challenges introverts face in the workplace and how to overcome them

    • The value of resilience and turning failures into stepping stones

    • How to leverage coaching in your career development

    Brought to you by:

    Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/succeeding-as-an-introvert-deb-liu

    Where to find Deb Liu:

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@debliu

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahliu

    • Substack: https://debliu.substack.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Introduction to Deb Liu

    (02:18) Deb’s career journey and key advice

    (09:45) Navigating new roles and challenges

    (11:27) Overcoming adversity and failure

    (15:07) Building billion-dollar businesses at Facebook

    (19:33) Strategies for zero-to-one innovation

    (23:40) PM your career like a product

    (33:53) Challenges and strategies for introverts in business

    (39:19) Reframing self-promotion

    (42:25) The power of accountability

    (46:15) Growth: a game of inches

    (50:52) The 30-60-90-day plan

    (56:52) Contrarian corner: career and marriage

    (58:57) Final nuggets of wisdom

    (01:03:09) How to find a coach

    (01:04:47) Lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Unorthodox PM wisdom: Automating user insights, unselling job candidates, logging every decision, more | Kevin Yien (Stripe, Square, Mutiny)

    Unorthodox PM wisdom: Automating user insights, unselling job candidates, logging every decision, more | Kevin Yien (Stripe, Square, Mutiny)

    Kevin Yien leads product for merchant experiences at Stripe. Before that, he meandered his way from being a technical designer to a product manager, built the restaurants business and ecosystem team at Square, and most recently was head of product and design at Mutiny. He also makes ice cream and teaches for fun. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why aspiring PMs should start in engineering, design, or sales

    • The importance of writing skills, and how to become a better writer

    • How to automate user research

    • Kevin’s “unsell email” technique for hiring

    • The value of keeping a decision log

    • Insights on AI and its impact on future generations

    • Lessons from failure

    Brought to you by:

    BuildBetter—AI for product teams

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien

    Where to find Kevin Yien:

    • X: https://x.com/kevinyien

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinyien/

    • Website: https://kevinyien.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kevin’s background 

    (02:00) The story behind Kevin’s profile picture

    (08:41) The role of a product manager

    (10:48) Getting started in product management

    (12:47) The importance of writing skills

    (15:06) Becoming a better writer

    (19:10) The PM’s role with engineering and design

    (28:41) Drawing the perimeter for your team

    (31:37) Feedback tips

    (35:13) Decision logs and product sense

    (45:36) Unorthodox hiring strategies

    (47:01) The unsell email strategy

    (54:01) Automating user research

    (01:02:27) AI in everyday life

    (01:06:05) Lessons from failure

    (01:14:34) Lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Improve strategy, influence, and decision-making by understanding your brain | Evan LaPointe (founder of CORE Sciences)

    Improve strategy, influence, and decision-making by understanding your brain | Evan LaPointe (founder of CORE Sciences)

    Evan LaPointe is the founder of CORE Sciences, which teaches companies and individuals how our brains work and how that translates to improved collaboration, better products, faster decision-making, and more growth. Previously, Evan was the co-founder of Satellite, the fourth-largest analytics company on the internet today (it mostly runs behind the scenes, and pretty much everyone listening will have used it today without knowing it), which was acquired by Adobe, where he later ran product strategy, innovation, and long-range thinking for Adobe’s digital experiences business. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The three different systems of the brain

    • How knowing this can help you become more influential

    • How understanding different brain states will help you increase productivity and creativity

    • How to improve your vision and strategy skills

    • How to design a work environment that fosters innovation

    • How to build better relationships at work

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/understanding-your-brain-evan-lapointe

    Where to find Evan LaPointe:

    • X: https://x.com/evanlapointe

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanlapointe/

    • Website: https://www.core-sciences.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Evan’s background

    (02:37) Understanding the brain’s complex systems

    (07:17) The three core brain systems: safety, reward, and purpose

    (11:03) Applying brain science to team dynamics

    (14:27) The role of personality in team performance

    (17:27) Creating effective work environments

    (23:16) The science of meetings and decision-making

    (29:35) Enhancing strategy and vision

    (54:46) Understanding personality traits in strategy and vision

    (58:58) Tactical tips for increasing openness

    (01:05:46) Building influence and effective relationships

    (01:21:17) The importance of trust and appeal in relationships

    (01:36:47) Creating a positive organizational habitat

    (01:50:35) Enhancing focus and productivity

    (02:00:58) Practical tips for deep work and gamma time

    (02:07:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • The Most Complicated Object in the Universe: https://today.uconn.edu/2018/03/complicated-object-universe/#

    • The Myers-Briggs personality test: https://www.themyersbriggs.com/en-US/Products-and-Services/Myers-Briggs

    • The Big Five personality test: https://www.thepersonalitylab.org/

    • The Enneagram personality test: https://enneagramtest.com/

    • An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config

    • An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom

    • Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-canva-with-cameron-adams

    • The Science-Business Mismatch That Puts Your Change at Risk: https://changemanagementreview.com/the-science-business-mismatch-that-puts-your-change-at-risk/

    • Daniel Pink on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielpink/

    • Trello: https://trello.com/

    • Cron: https://cronhq.notion.site/

    • The Double Diamond framework for design thinking: https://www.fluxspace.io/resources/the-4-ds-double-diamond-design-thinking-model

    • CORE Sciences - Tips on Priming Great Meetings PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gm21cj0vi0bjosyu8kd69/CORE-Sciences-Tips-on-Priming-Great-Meetings.pdf?rlkey=6fznhv7bbsxm8nj8m4luej17t&st=2eduirad&dl=0

    • How to grow a subscription business | Yuriy Timen (Grammarly, Canva, Airtable): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/transform-your-subscription-growth

    • Brené Brown’s website: https://brenebrown.com/

    • The CORE personality test: https://www.core-sciences.com/new-core-identity

    • Burning Man: https://burningman.org/

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Jony Ive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive

    • Albert Einstein quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7133605-make-things-as-simple-as-possible-but-no-simpler

    • Elden Ring: https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ring/elden-ring

    • Abilene paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox

    The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355

    • The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon

    • Siqi Chan on X: https://x.com/blader

    • Runway: https://runway.com/

    • Shreyas Doshi on pre-mortems, the LNO framework, the three levels of product work, why most execution problems are strategy problems, and ROI vs. opportunity cost thinking: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/episode-3-shreyas-doshi

    • Wolfgang Puck’s website: https://wolfgangpuck.com/

    • Steven Spielberg on X: https://x.com/sspielberg93

    • John Williams’s website: https://www.johnwilliams.org/

    • The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

    • Warby Parker: https://www.warbyparker.com/

    • Simon Sinek’s website: https://simonsinek.com/

    • What is the function of the various brainwaves?: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-function-of-t-1997-12-22/

    • CORE Sciences - Your Brain's 9 Modes PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/figg8upeaawir1hnxv0ew/CORE-Sciences-Your-Brain-s-9-Modes.pdf?rlkey=u3zaonxvycvupurq6pwysckfq&st=os06xjnr&dl=0

    Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It: Unlock Your Persuasion Potential in Professional and Personal Life: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

    The Person and the Situation: Perspectives of Social Psychology: https://www.amazon.com/Person-Situation-Perspectives-Social-Psychology/dp/1905177445

    Cambridge Fundamentals of Neuroscience in Psychology: https://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Fundamentals-Neuroscience-Psychology/dp/B08QYNDNYX

    • Robert Greene’s books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Robert-Greene/author/B001IGV3IS

    Misbehaving: The Making of Behavioral Economics: https://www.amazon.com/Misbehaving-Behavioral-Economics-Richard-Thaler/dp/039335279X

    • Beehiiv: https://www.beehiiv.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How embracing your emotions will accelerate your career | Joe Hudson (executive coach, Art of Accomplishment)

    How embracing your emotions will accelerate your career | Joe Hudson (executive coach, Art of Accomplishment)

    Joe Hudson is one of the most sought-after executive coaches in Silicon Valley. He is the founder of Art of Accomplishment, a transformational coaching program that has helped tens of thousands of people, including many tech executives and founders from companies like Apple, OpenAI, and Google. His unique method of transformation comes from over 25 years of exploring neurological, psychological, and spiritual traditions, tested against real-world challenges. In our conversation, Joe shares:

    • Why the critical voice in your head is always wrong, and how to change your relationship with that voice

    • Why authenticity trumps self-improvement

    • The importance of embracing all of your emotions

    • How to create more enjoyable and effective meetings

    • The power of gratitude in transforming your life

    • Practical experiments for personal growth

    • Much more

    Apply for Joe’s Connection Course:

    Thousands of students have taken Joe’s most popular experience, the Connection Course. Unlike most online courses, there is no reading, lectures, or written homework. It is a three-week experiential deep dive where you will apply your learnings to real-life problems—how to make your team more productive, communicate more effectively, and resolve conflicts with ease. Apply here and use the code LENNY for $300 off your enrollment: view.life/lenny.

    Brought to you by:

    BuildBetter—AI for product teams

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/embracing-your-emotions-joe-hudson

    Where to find Joe Hudson:

    • X: https://x.com/FU_joehudson

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-hudson/

    • Website: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/

    • Podcast: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast

    • Linktree: https://linktr.ee/theartofaccomplishment

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Joe’s background

    (02:31) The critical voice in your head

    (06:39) Changing your relationship with the critical voice

    (13:19) Understanding and embracing emotions

    (19:52) The importance of emotional fluidity

    (24:40) Questioning assumptions and self-perception

    (30:25) The consequences of avoiding emotions

    (36:57) Experimenting with self-improvement

    (39:42) Understanding efficiency and enjoyment

    (43:17) The power of enjoyment in daily tasks

    (45:03) Innate enjoyment vs. learned enjoyment

    (46:31) Authenticity vs. self-improvement

    (50:01) Embracing emotional experiences

    (55:49) How understanding your emotions helps you make better decisions

    (01:02:53) Creating effective teams and meetings

    (01:10:40) Gratitude practice for personal growth

    (01:15:36) Conclusion and final thoughts

    Referenced:

    Descartes’ Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain: https://www.amazon.com/Descartes-Error-Emotion-Reason-Human/dp/014303622X/

    • Joe’s quote about joy: https://x.com/FU_joehudson/status/1756837774743790030

    • “Emotional Inquiry”: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast/emotional-inquiry

    Inside Out 2: https://movies.disney.com/inside-out-2

    • “Question the Assumption”: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast/question-the-assumption

    • Bodega Bay: https://www.bodegabay.com/

    • Elon Musk reveals the interview question he asks every candidate to instantly spot a liar: https://www.good.is/elon-musk-reveals-the-one-job-interview-question-he-asks-every-candidate-to-instantly-spot-a-liar

    • Great Decisions course: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/course/great-decisions-course

    • HBR Analytic Services: https://hbr.org/hbr-analytic-services

    • Connection Course: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/course/the-connection-course

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe