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    Let's Talk About the Anxiety Freedom Can Cause

    enOctober 08, 2021

    Podcast Summary

    • The pursuit of freedom is a challenging practice filled with difficulties and potential unfreedomFreedom is not a one-time event but an ongoing practice that requires constant effort and can come with challenges and potential unfreedom

      Freedom, as we often think of it as a state of enduring liberation, may not exist. According to cultural critic and author Maggie Nelson, in her book "On Freedom," the pursuit of freedom is a challenging and ongoing practice, filled with difficulties and the potential for unfreedom for ourselves and others. Nelson explores this idea through essays on art, sex, drugs, and climate. She argues that while we may desire freedom, we also have a taste for unfreedom and the relief of not having to make constant decisions. Anxiety is related to this, as it stems from trying to protect ourselves from potential bad outcomes. However, Nelson also questions the emancipatory rhetoric of past eras, which treats liberation as a one-time event, and instead encourages the ongoing practice of freedom. Freedom, she suggests, is something we win and then practice every day. James Baldwin once remarked that many people, especially Americans, have a reluctance to truly embrace freedom due to its challenges. Freedom, Nelson argues, is hard to bear, but necessary and worth the effort.

    • Negotiating Tensions Between Collective and Individual FreedomsAn ongoing dialogue and consensus-building is crucial for navigating the complexities of individual and collective freedoms, as shown in the controversy surrounding 'Scaffold' artwork installation.

      The pursuit of collective freedoms and individual freedom can be a complex and challenging process, as highlighted in the discussion around the book "The Left Project." The book emphasizes the importance of continuing to negotiate these tensions rather than seeking a final resolution where individual desires align perfectly with the greater good of the group. This is reflected in anarchist philosophy, which encourages ongoing dialogue and consensus-building. A notable example of this tension is seen in the controversy surrounding the artwork "Scaffold" by Sam Durant. The piece, which replicated parts of historical gallows, was intended as a reckoning with history but was criticized for being installed on Dakota homeland without community consultation. The controversy underscores the importance of considering the impact of actions on communities and the ongoing negotiation required to navigate the complexities of individual and collective freedoms.

    • A model for transformative justice in art controversiesThe controversy over Sam Durant's 'Scaffold' led to a transformative resolution through dialogue and intellectual ownership transfer. However, the focus on protesting and removing art raises questions about the balance between collective and individual interpretations of events.

      The outcome of the controversy surrounding Sam Durant's art installation "Scaffold" served as a model for transformative justice. Durant, in consultation with the affected tribe, agreed to remove and destroy the piece, transferring intellectual ownership to them. This resolution was significant because it provided a forum for dialogue, reducing the potential for a classic stalemate between protesters and museum administrators. However, the controversy remains controversial, and the author of the text expresses reservations about the focus on protesting and removing individual pieces of art as a form of activism. The text also touches upon the idea of how people interpret events, drawing a parallel to the concept of cognitive behavioral therapy. The argument is that while it might be necessary for a collective to have an intense, critical interpretation of events to bring about change, individuals might benefit from a more generous, less calamitous interpretation for their own well-being. The text raises the question of whether there is a synthesis to be found between these two ways of interpreting events or if they remain irreconcilable.

    • Practice generosity when engaging with strong criticismsGenerosity in response to criticisms can lead to productive conversations and change, while deep engagement with art and culture fosters intellectual growth and creativity.

      When engaging with strong complaints or criticisms, it's essential to practice generosity and absorb the perspectives of others before responding. This approach can lead to productive conversations and change, rather than a constricted or paranoid response. The author's book also emphasizes the importance of personal encounters with art and culture, encouraging a deep and thoughtful engagement rather than being pushed around by internet mobs or global sentiment. While the book doesn't delve deeply into digital media, the author acknowledges the pressure to react to things before experiencing them and the importance of staying close to one's own thoughts and reactions. The author values slow looking and considered engagement with art and culture, which they believe is essential for intellectual growth and creativity.

    • The dangers of conforming to collective opinionsParanoid reading can lead to divisive interpretations, while reparative reading fosters openness and understanding.

      There's a loss of individual freedom when we become too plugged into collective opinions, as discussed in relation to film reviews and the essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates on "I versus we" freedoms. This pressure to conform to idealized or degraded opinions, as described by Eve Sedgwick's concept of paranoid reading, can lead to a narrow and divisive way of engaging with cultural artifacts. Instead, a more generative and nurturing approach, or reparative reading, can help transform negative experiences into positive ones and broaden our perspectives. The complex essay by Sedgwick diagnoses the dangers of paranoid reading, which seeks to identify and attack weaknesses, and instead advocates for a more open and repairing way of engaging with art and culture.

    • Understanding Art and Ideas through Paranoia and Reparative ReadingParanoia offers definitive readings, while reparative reading honors individual experiences and allows for interpretations to change and evolve

      Paranoia and reparative reading serve different purposes in understanding art, literature, and ideas. Paranoia can lead to definitive readings, providing a clear understanding of what a thing is, while reparative reading allows for ambiguity and openness, acknowledging that interpretations can change and evolve over time. The value of reparative reading lies in its ability to honor individual experiences and the freedom to change, even if interpretations differ from others. This perspective can be applied not only to high art and complex theories but also to everyday experiences, such as reading children's books, where different interpretations can coexist. Embracing the reparative approach allows us to appreciate the richness and complexity of art and ideas throughout our lives and throughout history.

    • Understanding Art's Complexity and Personal InterpretationsArt's meaning can differ greatly between individuals due to personal experiences and contexts. It's essential to respect diverse perspectives and consider the complexity of art and our relationship with it.

      Our interpretations of art, including children's books, can vary greatly based on personal experiences and contexts. What may seem horrifying or problematic to one person might hold profound meaning or provide joy to another. It's essential to remember that there's not only one way to understand a text, and it's crucial to respect and consider different perspectives. Additionally, the reparative activity, which involves finding what we need from art, can sometimes make us insensitive to other parts. For instance, Prince's music provided permission-giving and life-changing energy for some, despite the presence of sexism in his art. Ultimately, it's about recognizing the complexity of art and our relationship with it.

    • Exploring the concept of 'no right, no wrong'Buddhist nun Pema Chodron's perspective challenges cultural moment's ethical certainty, offering a space free of judgment or accepting the inevitability of judgment, leading to a more aligned daily practice and prefigurative politics.

      Recognizing our deep desire for perfection and understanding how it doesn't align with the imperfect world we live in is important work. This concept is explored through the writings of Buddhist nun Pema Chodron, who advocates for the idea of "no right, no wrong." This perspective challenges our cultural moment defined by ethical certainty and moral righteousness, and living by it can be frightening due to the need to let go of ego pursuits. The concept of "no right, no wrong" can also be interpreted as "all right, all wrong," offering a space free of judgment or accepting the inevitability of judgment. The difference between these interpretations raises questions about how we approach people who do unacceptable things and the role of punishment versus understanding and rehabilitation. Ultimately, embracing the complexity of the world and our place in it can lead to a more aligned daily practice and a prefigurative politics.

    • Feminist Movement's Divide: Carceral vs. Anti-CarceralThe feminist movement grapples with anger, punitive desires, and exclusion while shifting from awakening to healing art roles. Care and freedom's coexistence requires critical examination.

      The feminist movement is currently facing a deep divide between those advocating for carceral feminism and anti-carceral feminism. This split is significant, but it doesn't mean the two sides can't come together. It's essential to acknowledge and address the anger, punitive desires, and desires to exclude that exist within individuals and society. These emotions are valid, but it's crucial to find productive ways to channel them instead of resorting to punitive measures. Another key point is the shift in art's role from awakening and freeing the audience in the 20th century to healing and caring for them in the 21st century. This change can be seen as part of an orthopedic aesthetic, which assumes there's something wrong with us that art can fix. However, it's essential to critically examine the concept of care, as it has a complicated history and can be gendered, potentially reinforcing power dynamics. The idea of care and freedom coexisting is not straightforward, and it's essential to consider the potential pitfalls of uncritically embracing the rhetoric of care.

    • Critiquing the notion of vulnerability in politics and artJudith Butler challenges the use of vulnerability as a sustainable categorical designation in politics and art. Art doesn't directly provide care or create caring relationships, and the reparative process is indirect.

      The concepts of art caring or harming, and politics of care, as categorical designations, are complex and may not be as fruitful as they seem. Judith Butler critiques the notion of the vulnerable as a sustainable and fruitful categorical designation in politics. Art does not aim to provide direct services or create a direct caring relationship, and the reparative is also quite indirect. The promise of sexual liberation brought real freedom, but the burdens and blessings of practicing that freedom have not been fully lifted from people's lives. Sex can still bring feelings of shame, vulnerability, disappointment, and humiliation, regardless of the conditions met for ethical or good sex. Instead of focusing solely on the backlash against sexual freedoms, it's essential to recognize and grow the places where we do have freedom and experiment with different sexual experiences.

    • Approaching sex as a learning experienceExpanding the conversation around sex to include learning and growth creates a more nuanced and empowering discourse for all individuals.

      Approaching sex as a site for learning and growth, rather than solely as a source of trauma or violation, is essential for women to occupy the subject position and fully embrace their desires. The discourse of complaint and protest, while important for acknowledging traumas, should not be the only frame for discussing sex. The idea of sex as a scene of learning offers an alternative perspective, allowing for conversations about consensual and positive experiences. It's crucial to recognize that people have difficult sexual experiences, some of which involve self-inflicted violations. In these cases, seeking understanding and interpretation from others can provide relief, but it's essential to approach this process with care and respect, as victim blaming remains a pervasive issue. By expanding the conversation around sex to include learning and growth, we can create a more nuanced and empowering discourse for all individuals.

    • Exploring Sexual Freedom: Discomfort and ProgressWhile sexual freedom brings discomfort and hesitancy, acknowledging personal role and learning new ways to engage sexually leads to personal growth and understanding.

      While there is a wider range of sexual freedom available today than ever before, it comes with a significant amount of discomfort and hesitancy. This discomfort is a byproduct of freedom, as it used to fall on specific communities or individuals. The speaker acknowledges the existence of phobias and bigotries that still exist, but also recognizes the progress that has been made. She emphasizes the importance of acknowledging one's role in patterns of behavior and learning new ways to be in sexual encounters. Despite the risks and uncertainty, the speaker believes that the exploration of these new realms is worth it for personal growth and understanding. The fear of making mistakes and being blamed for actions can be overwhelming, but it is a necessary part of the process of embracing sexual agency and subjectivity.

    • Navigating Sexual Freedom with Consent CultureEmbrace individual autonomy and create a more inclusive sexual culture by respecting differences and being mindful of consent. Consent culture helps navigate gray areas but may not be the same for everyone.

      We are living in a new era of sexual freedom, where people are working to build structures to manage this freedom, even if it feels restrictive or imperfect. These structures, such as consent culture, are important because they help us navigate the gray areas of freedom and create a safer and more inclusive sexual landscape. However, it's essential to remember that these structures can have biases and may not be the same for everyone. As Gail Rubin's principle of benign sexual variation reminds us, we are all different, and what might be desirable or ethical for one person may not be the same for another. Embracing this heterogeneity is crucial for respecting individual autonomy and creating a more inclusive sexual culture. Emerson's quote, "this time, like all times, is a very good one if we but know what to do with it," emphasizes the importance of being mindful and intentional in our actions, especially when it comes to sexual freedom and ethics.

    • Embrace the present despite challengesDespite adversity, focus on making the most of the present to live a good life and pass on hope to future generations.

      That despite the challenges of climate crisis, poverty, and sexual violence, there is still the possibility for individuals to live a good life and practice freedom. This idea is encapsulated in the Emerson quote, "These times are good ones if only we know what to do with it." By embracing this perspective, individuals can let go of attenuation and focus on what they can do to make the most of the current situation. This notion of seizing the opportunity of the present is particularly important when considering the challenges faced by future generations and the importance of passing on a sense of hope and privilege to them.

    • Exploring meaningful connections and ethical relationshipsLearn to truly listen beyond paranoid thinking, create autonomous and beautiful lives for the oppressed, and redefine nonviolence as a constructive force.

      Importance of deep listening, understanding, and connection in our interactions with others. The first recommendation, "Essays on Hierarchy, Rebellion, and Desire" by David Graeber, encourages us to move beyond paranoid thinking and learn how to truly listen. The second recommendation, "Wayward Lives, Beautiful Experiments" by Saidiya Hartman, highlights the importance of creating autonomous and beautiful lives for those who have been oppressed. Lastly, Judith Butler's "The Force of Nonviolence" challenges our understanding of nonviolence as a passive or suppressive force, instead emphasizing its potential as a means of dealing with destructive impulses in a constructive way. Overall, these books offer valuable insights into building meaningful connections and fostering ethical relationships.

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    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    The steady dings of notifications. The 40 tabs that greet you when you open your computer in the morning. The hundreds of unread emails, most of them spam, with subject lines pleading or screaming for you to click. Our attention is under assault these days, and most of us are familiar with the feeling that gives us — fractured, irritated, overwhelmed.

    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

    In this conversation, we talk about how the 20th-century study of attention laid the groundwork for today’s attention economy, the connection between changing ideas of attention and changing ideas of the self, how we even define attention (this episode is worth listening to for Burnett’s collection of beautiful metaphors alone), whether the concern over our shrinking attention spans is simply a moral panic, what it means to teach attention and more.

    Mentioned:

    Friends of Attention

    The Battle for Attention” by Nathan Heller

    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

    Book Recommendations:

    Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll

    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

    The Confidence-Man by Herman Melville

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 31, 2024

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    A.I.-generated art has flooded the internet, and a lot of it is derivative, even boring or offensive. But what could it look like for artists to collaborate with A.I. systems in making art that is actually generative, challenging, transcendent?

    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

    Mentioned:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

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