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    222 | Andrew Strominger on Quantum Gravity and the Real World

    enJanuary 09, 2023

    Podcast Summary

    • Finding Quality Candidates with Indeed and Managing Personal Finances with Rocket MoneyIndeed helps employers find quality candidates efficiently with 350 million monthly visitors and a matching engine, while Rocket Money helps users save money by identifying and canceling unwanted subscriptions and monitoring spending.

      When it comes to hiring, instead of searching for candidates, use a platform like Indeed. With over 350 million monthly visitors and a matching engine, Indeed can help you find quality candidates quickly and efficiently. Not only does Indeed streamline the hiring process, but it also delivers high-quality matches, as 93% of employers agree. Meanwhile, if you're looking to manage your personal finances, consider using Rocket Money. This app helps you identify and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitor your spending, and lower your bills. With over 5 million users and an average savings of $720 per year, Rocket Money is an effective tool for saving money. In the realm of science, specifically quantum gravity, we're still working to reconcile quantum mechanics and gravity. Theoretical physicist Andy Strauminger, today's podcast guest, was a key player in the first superstring revolution in 1984. He helped compactify 10-dimensional space-time into our 4-dimensional world, bringing standard model physics into the picture. Despite making significant strides, we still don't have a complete theory of the standard model from string theory. Overall, whether it's hiring, managing finances, or exploring the mysteries of quantum gravity, progress is made through dedicated research, collaboration, and innovative solutions.

    • Andy Strominger's Pioneering Work in Quantum GravityAndy Strominger's groundbreaking research in quantum gravity pushed boundaries of string theory, exploring de Sitter space and holographic black holes, and combining theoretical physics, philosophy, and experimental data to make progress in understanding classical and quantum gravity.

      Throughout his career, Andy Strominger has been a pioneering figure in the field of quantum gravity, pushing the boundaries of string theory and its connection to the real world. While many researchers in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s focused on scattering strings and compactifying space-time, Strominger's work in the 90s and beyond has been instrumental in exploring de Sitter space and the holographic description of black holes in our universe. This work is significant because the boundaries between string theory, quantum field theory, and theoretical physics more broadly have become increasingly blurred, and the AdS/CFT correspondence has consumed a lot of oxygen in the quantum gravity world. Strominger's contributions go beyond AdS/CFT, as he is part of the Black Hole Initiative at Harvard, where researchers combine theoretical physics, philosophy, and experimental data to make progress in understanding classical gravity, quantum gravity, and potentially string theory. Strominger's career began during the heyday of particle physics, but he was perfectly timed to make significant strides in quantum gravity research as it evolved. Throughout his career, he has kept his eyes on the prize of connecting quantum gravity to the real world.

    • The mid-20th century's greatest challenges in physics: solving strong interactions and discovering a grand unified theory, excluding gravity.Progress in unifying quantum mechanics and general relativity, the two major incompatible theories, was slow due to the lack of interest and resources during the mid-20th century. Notable figures like John Wheeler championed the importance of quantum gravity, leading to significant discoveries despite the field's discouragement.

      During the mid-20th century, two of the most significant challenges in physics were finding a solution to the strong interactions and discovering a grand unified theory, excluding gravity. These problems were considered the greatest achievements in physics at the time, yet the theories of quantum mechanics and general relativity were incompatible, leaving the field of quantum gravity largely unexplored and discouraged. The number of researchers interested in this problem was in the dozens, with many influential figures dismissing it as uninteresting and premature. Despite the lack of progress, some notable figures, such as John Wheeler, championed the importance of quantum gravity, leading to significant discoveries like the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. The challenge of unifying quantum mechanics and general relativity remains an open question in modern physics.

    • Lenny Susskind's encounter with string theoryPhysicist Lenny Susskind was initially skeptical of string theory but learned it due to its potential to unify quantum mechanics and general relativity. He was won over by its mathematical elegance and ability to resolve infinities, despite reservations about its aesthetic appeal and technical complexity.

      During the 1980s, physicist Lenny Susskind was working on quantum gravity when he encountered string theory, which was being championed by Green and Schwartz as a potential solution to the long-standing problem of combining quantum mechanics and general relativity. Despite his initial skepticism due to its particle physics-centric approach and perceived lack of deep conceptual input, Susskind felt obligated to learn it. He had reservations about its aesthetic appeal and the technical complexity of its presentation, but was eventually won over by its mathematical elegance and ability to resolve infinities. However, he acknowledged that it did not yet fully incorporate observed phenomena like quarks, leptons, and parity violation. String theory's potential for unifying quantum mechanics and general relativity marked a significant turning point in Susskind's career, demonstrating the importance of staying open-minded to new ideas and approaches in the pursuit of scientific understanding.

    • Exploring the depth of physics through diverse perspectivesString theory's fusion of geometry and particle physics led to significant discoveries, demonstrating the importance of both approaches in physics.

      The depth of understanding in physics requires diverse perspectives and approaches. The speaker shares his experience of initially disliking complex equations in string theory but later appreciating the inner harmony and beauty that dedicated researchers find in them. String theory, which combines geometry and particle physics, was a groundbreaking development that attracted thousands of researchers due to its potential to unify forces and dimensions. The speaker's team added geometry back into the theory, leading to significant discoveries, such as a natural explanation for the parity-violating structure of the world and the unified gauge groups. The success of string theory demonstrated the importance of both geometry and particle physics, and while the field has evolved, the initial excitement came from particle physicists seeking unification. Despite initial resistance from some areas of the physics community, the impact of string theory has been profound and continues to shape our understanding of the universe.

    • A detour on the path to understanding realityString theory is an important but not final solution to physics, with new ideas and ways of looking at things continuing to emerge within it

      String theory, while it has provided new insights and ideas in physics, is not currently seen as the final answer or completion of the reductionist program. Its predictive power is limited due to the many ways to curl up the extra dimensions, leading to a proliferation of phases. The chances of it being the complete solution to physics are very low, but the chances of it being completely wrong and irrelevant are even smaller. String theory is seen as an important detour on the path to understanding the fundamental nature of reality, with new ideas and ways of looking at things continuing to emerge within it. An analogy can be drawn to Yang Mills theory, which was initially thought to describe the relationship between the proton and neutron but was later found to describe other fundamental aspects of physics. The current understanding is that there will be new fundamental ideas and ways of looking at things, and string theory will find its place in this evolving understanding of the universe.

    • The discovery of holography and AdS/CFT correspondence through string theoryString theory's introduction led to the discovery of holography, a principle suggesting info in a region can be stored on its surface, proven within the theory, leading to advancements in math and physics.

      String theory, which was first introduced as a different theory compared to what it is today, has led us to the discovery of holography and the AdS/CFT correspondence. This principle, which was first hinted at by Bekenstein and Hawking's work on black holes, suggests that the information in a region of space can be stored on its surface, like a hologram. Though this idea was initially met with skepticism, it was later proven within the framework of string theory using complicated constructions and mathematics. This discovery has led to significant advancements in both mathematics and our understanding of physical systems.

    • Understanding the relationship between different types of quantum systemsThe complexity of understanding the relationship between different types of quantum systems, especially positively curved ones, arises from the real world's inherent complexity and challenges in identifying simple structures. Simplifying assumptions and dual descriptions may provide insights, but a complete explanation remains elusive.

      Understanding the relationship between different types of quantum systems, specifically those with negative, zero, and positive curvature, has been a complex and ongoing process. While negative curvature, as seen in anti-de Sitter space, has been extensively studied, the real world, which is expected to be positively curved in the far future, remains the most difficult to understand. This complexity arises from the real world's inherent complexity and the challenges of seeing through it to identify simple structures. Simplifying assumptions, such as studying theories with simpler systems or having more symmetries, can help, but the ultimate explanation may still be elusive. The potential reason for this could be that we are better at quantum field theory than finite dimensional models, and the dual description of de Sitter space, which could provide insights, may not yet be in our toolkit. The quest for understanding continues.

    • Understanding holographic principle in de Sitter spaceResearchers explore how to reconcile holographic principle's boundary concept with de Sitter space's infinite time boundary, and gain insights from AdS/CFT correspondence without using string theory.

      The holographic principle, which suggests that the information in a large system can be encoded on a boundary, poses a challenge when applied to de Sitter space, which doesn't have a spatial boundary but an infinite one in time. This creates a conceptual problem as the holographic plate, which is supposed to contain all the information, exists at the boundary, but the boundary has no time. Researchers are trying to understand how to reconcile these concepts and extract general insights from the AdS/CFT correspondence, a relationship between a quantum field theory in one space and a gravitational theory in another, without invoking string theory itself. Another promising area of research is the CFT correspondence, which focuses on individual black holes and their relationship to a dual quantum field theory. Overall, these complex theories and concepts highlight the ongoing efforts to better understand the relationship between quantum mechanics and general relativity, and to find practical applications in the real world.

    • Emergent symmetries in physicsDiscovering infinite emergent conformal symmetries near a black hole's horizon provides significant control over the system's dynamics and explains the area law for black hole information

      In the field of physics, particularly in string theory and black hole research, there exists a concept called emergent symmetry. This symmetry can manifest in various forms of matter and energy transitions, from critical opalescence in liquids to the very early universe's inflation theory. Vafa and the speaker discovered that near a black hole's horizon, an infinite number of emergent conformal symmetries emerge, providing significant control over the system's dynamics. These symmetries were crucial in explaining the area law for the gigabytes of information stored in a black hole, answering a question posed decades ago by Bekenstein and Hawking. Interestingly, many observed black holes, such as Kerr black holes, exhibit similar conformal symmetries when they approach the speed limit set by Einstein's theory of relativity. This discovery allows researchers to apply the same reasoning to understand the structure of these observed black holes, as demonstrated by the CFT (Conformal Field Theory) correspondence. Overall, emergent symmetries serve as a powerful organizing principle in modern physics, from condensed matter to particle physics and beyond.

    • The role of conformal symmetry in advancing our understanding of the cosmic microwave background and astrophysical black holesConformal symmetry, a type of scaling symmetry, has led to predictions for the structure of emissions from black holes and has resurfaced as a valuable tool for both observational astronomers and theoretical physicists, with applications to the Event Horizon Telescope and LIGO.

      Conformal symmetry, a type of scaling symmetry, has played a crucial role in advancing our understanding of both the cosmic microwave background (CMB) and astrophysical black holes. This symmetry, which allows systems to look the same at different scales, has led to predictions for the structure of emissions from black holes. Although it may be some time before these predictions can be verified with the necessary precision, the progress made in this area surpasses what Walfa and the speaker had achieved. Conformal symmetry is not as complex as it sounds; it's similar to a fractal pattern, where zooming in reveals the same pattern. Vafa and the speaker's work on the limits of black hole charge and rotation in various dimensions with supersymmetry is an example of how conformal symmetry enabled them to make calculations. Recently, conformal symmetry has resurfaced as a valuable tool for both observational astronomers and theoretical physicists, with applications to the Event Horizon Telescope and LIGO. The photon ring phenomenon, which has been a focus of recent interest, is a result of this symmetry and could potentially provide new insights into the holographic principle and the mysteries of quantum black holes. In summary, conformal symmetry, a seemingly abstract concept, has proven to be a powerful tool in advancing our understanding of the universe.

    • Photon Ring Around Black Hole: A Hall of Mirrors EffectThe discovery of the photon ring around a black hole, a hall of mirrors effect, offers insights into the makeup of matter around the black hole and its structure, as well as the laws of physics governing curved spacetime.

      The discovery of the photon ring around a black hole, a phenomenon observed through the way light behaves in the extreme gravitational field, has profound implications for both physics and astronomy. This discovery, which came about through the lens of string theory, has already influenced astronomers and is a major goal for the Event Horizon Telescope. The photon ring is essentially a hall of mirrors effect around a black hole, where light can reflect and wrap around the black hole infinitely. This phenomenon offers an opportunity to learn more about the makeup of the matter swirling around the black hole and, most importantly, the black hole itself, as well as the laws of physics governing curved spacetime. The observation of these finer images will provide valuable insights into the structure of black holes, factoring out irrelevant information, much like observing the relationship between a direct image and its reflection to learn about the arrangement of mirrors.

    • Exploring Photon Rings Around Black Holes as Holographic PlanesThe study of photon rings around black holes could provide insights into the holographic principle, challenging the assumption that holography only occurs at the event horizon, and inviting listeners to consider new perspectives on black hole physics.

      The study of photon rings around black holes, which appear to exhibit conformal symmetry, could provide insights into the application of the holographic principle. This principle suggests that the information contained in a three-dimensional object can be encoded on a two-dimensional surface, such as a holographic plate. The hypothesis is that the photon ring functions as a holographic plane. This perspective challenges the common assumption that holography occurs only at the event horizon of a black hole. Observers and theoretical physicists have found that looking at images and asking questions can lead to new insights and perspectives. The study invites listeners to examine the numerical simulation of the first LIGO merger and consider where the holographic plane might be located. The hypothesis is not reliant on string theory making different predictions than classical general relativity but rather using string theory to analyze the same prediction. The study aims to show that the route to understanding the seemingly irreconcilable points of view of general relativity and particle physics, which was revealed through string theory, could also apply to black holes below the spinning speed limit. The photon ring is proposed as a step on this route.

    • Ongoing research in physics challenges classical understanding of general relativityContinue research using both top-down and bottom-up approaches, believe in the significance of your work, and remain open to new discoveries

      Despite the current lack of concrete evidence, there is ongoing research in the field of physics, particularly in the area of string theory, to challenge the classical understanding of general relativity. While some experiments, such as the BICEP 2 experiment, have not panned out, there is hope that future discoveries may challenge our current understanding of the universe. The speaker emphasizes the importance of continuing research using both top-down and bottom-up approaches, as each approach provides valuable insights and ideas for the other. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of scientists believing in the significance of their work and the need to balance what is feasible with what is interesting. The speaker shares a personal anecdote about a dinner conversation with the interviewee, where they discussed the importance of believing in the significance of one's work.

    • Focusing on fascinating and feasible questionsExploring intriguing questions at the intersection of science and philosophy expands knowledge and understanding, driving scientific progress and personal growth.

      While there are countless intriguing questions in the universe, not all of them are equally important or solvable. Andy Straumiger emphasized the significance of focusing on questions that are both fascinating and feasible to answer. These questions often lie at the intersection of science and philosophy, and though they may not be as grand as the meaning of life or the nature of black holes, they still hold immense value in expanding our knowledge and understanding of the world around us. It's essential to remember that the most interesting and important questions are not always the most obvious or widely explored, and tackling these complex issues is what drives scientific progress and personal growth. So, keep asking questions, but make sure they're worth the journey. Thanks for tuning in to the Mindscape podcast, and a big thank you to Andy Straumiger for sharing his insights.

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    Related Episodes

    200 | Solo: The Philosophy of the Multiverse

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    The 200th episode of Mindscape! Thanks to everyone for sticking around for this long. To celebrate, a solo episode discussing a set of issues naturally arising at the intersection of philosophy and physics: how to think about probabilities and expectations in a multiverse. Here I am more about explaining the issues than offering correct answers, although I try to do a bit of that as well.

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    References:


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    18 | Clifford Johnson on What's So Great About Superstring Theory

    18 | Clifford Johnson on What's So Great About Superstring Theory
    String theory is a speculative and highly technical proposal for uniting the known forces of nature, including gravity, under a single quantum-mechanical framework. This doesn't seem like a recipe for creating a lightning rod of controversy, but somehow string theory has become just that. To get to the bottom of why anyone (indeed, a substantial majority of experts in the field) would think that replacing particles with little loops of string was a promising way forward for theoretical physics, I spoke with expert string theorist Clifford Johnson. We talk about the road string theory has taken from a tentative proposal dealing with the strong interactions, through a number of revolutions, to the point it's at today. Also, where all those extra dimensions might have gone. At the end we touch on Clifford's latest project, a graphic novel that he wrote and illustrated about how science is done. Clifford Johnson is a Professor of Physics at the University of Southern California. He received his Ph.D. in mathematics and physics from the University of Southampton. His research area is theoretical physics, focusing on string theory and quantum field theory. He was awarded the Maxwell Medal from the Institute of Physics. Johnson is the author of the technical monograph D-Branes, as well as the graphic novel The Dialogues. Home page Wikipedia page Publications A talk on The Dialogues Asymptotia blog Twitter See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    183 | Michael Dine on Supersymmetry, Anthropics, and the Future of Particle Physics

    183 | Michael Dine on Supersymmetry, Anthropics, and the Future of Particle Physics

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    Michael Dine received his Ph.D. in physics from Yale University. He is Distinguished Professor of Physics at the Santa Cruz Institute for Particle Physics, University of California, Santa Cruz. Among his awards are fellowships from the Sloan Foundation, Guggenheim Foundation, American Physical Society, and American Academy of Arts and Sciences, as well as the Sakurai Prize for theoretical particle physics. His new book is This Way to the Universe: A Theoretical Physicist’s Journey to the Edge of Reality.


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    Bonus | AIP Oral History Interview

    Bonus | AIP Oral History Interview

    Here is a special bonus punishment treat for Mindscape listeners: an interview of me, by David Zierler of the American Institute of Physics’s Oral History project. This is a fantastic project that collects interviews with influential physicists of all ages, and apparently sometimes less-influential physicists. So if you’d like to hear my (academic) life story boiled down to a mere four hours, here you go!

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    It’s well worth checking out the AIP Oral History Project website, which has over 1000 fascinating interviews with physicists from different decades. The transcript of this particular interview can be found there. Thanks to David and the AIP for letting us include this as a bonus podcast episode.

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    275 | Solo: Quantum Fields, Particles, Forces, and Symmetries

    275 | Solo: Quantum Fields, Particles, Forces, and Symmetries

    Publication week! Say hello to Quanta and Fields, the second volume of the planned three-volume series The Biggest Ideas in the Universe. This volume covers quantum physics generally, but focuses especially on the wonders of quantum field theory. To celebrate, this solo podcast talks about some of the big ideas that make QFT so compelling: how quantized fields produce particles, how gauge symmetries lead to forces of nature, and how those forces can manifest in different phases, including Higgs and confinement.

    Blog post with transcript: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2024/05/13/275-solo-quantum-fields-particles-forces-and-symmetries/

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