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    • The Cost of American Success: Carnegie and Frick's Ruptured PartnershipBorn into poverty, Carnegie and Frick rose to immense wealth and power through capitalism and the Protestant ethic, but their partnership's end revealed the contradictions within these systems. Their falling out, highlighted by the Battle of Homestead, makes for a fascinating read.

      Learning from the discussion about "Meet You in Hell: Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick, and the Bitter Partnership that Transformed America" is that the American ethos of limitless possibility, embodied in the lives of Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick, came with a significant cost. Both men, born into poverty, achieved immense wealth and power through capitalism and the Protestant ethic, but their partnership was ultimately ruptured, revealing the contradictions inherent in these systems. The book explores their relationship and the events that led to their falling out, specifically the Battle of Homestead, which was a significant labor dispute. Despite the fact that many details about their lives have been covered in previous biographies, the author's focus on their relationship and the events that led to their falling out makes for a fascinating read. The title of the book, "Meet You in Hell," comes from a letter Carnegie sent to Frick, proposing a meeting to discuss their influence on America's decision to join the League of Nations. Frick's response: "Tell him I'll see him in hell where we are both going." This exchange illustrates the deep-seated animosity between the two men, despite their shared success and influence.

    • The late 1800s: A pivotal era for the steel industryAndrew Carnegie became the richest man in the world by selling his steel company, with the expansion of railroads driving demand for steel and coke's role in economical steel production.

      The era we're living in, with its rapid technological advancements, will be viewed as pivotal by future historians, just like the late 1800s was for the steel industry. Andrew Carnegie, who controlled a significant portion of the market, took advantage of this period to make himself the richest man in the world by selling his steel company for $480 million in 1901. The steel industry was crucial during this time due to the expansion of the railroad system, which required vast amounts of iron and steel for tracks and construction. Carnegie's business partner, Henry Clay Frick, was known as the "King of Coke," as coke (baked bituminous coal) was an essential raw material for the economical production of steel. The interplay between technological advancements and the steel industry transformed the United States from an agrarian society into an economic juggernaut in less than half a century.

    • From bobbin boy to businessman: Carnegie's journey through technological shiftsAdapting to technology and being open to new opportunities can lead to significant growth and success, even during challenging times.

      The technological shift during Andrew Carnegie's time, much like the one we're experiencing now, presented both challenges and opportunities. Carnegie's father was negatively impacted by technology, while Carnegie himself benefited greatly. Starting as a bobbin boy in a weaving mill, Carnegie's hard work and determination led him to become a telegraph operator for the Pennsylvania Railroad, where he received a practical business education and learned about investing. A fateful investment in Adams Express led to his first income from dividends, sparking his interest in entrepreneurship. By age 24, Carnegie had become an executive with an annual salary of $1500, a significant increase from his early wages. This story underscores the importance of adapting to technology and being open to new opportunities, even during challenging times.

    • Carnegie's profitable investment during the Civil WarCarnegie's investment in the Keystone Bridge Company during the Civil War led him to leave his job and start his own companies, using a strategy of being acquired by larger competitors to increase his wealth.

      Andrew Carnegie's experience with the Keystone Bridge Company during the Civil War was a pivotal moment in his life. This investment turned out to be highly profitable, and it showed Carnegie the potential of making significant wealth through business ventures. Realizing that he couldn't achieve his financial goals while working as a salaried employee, Carnegie left the Pennsylvania Railroad and started his own companies. He employed a strategy of organizing companies with the intention of being acquired by larger competitors, allowing him to benefit from their resources and increase his wealth. By the age of 33, Carnegie had amassed personal assets worth over $400,000 and an annual income of more than $50,000, which is equivalent to around $10,000,000 a year in today's terms. This early success allowed Carnegie to become a capitalist and set the foundation for his future business endeavors.

    • Andrew Carnegie's internal conflict between wealth and valuesCarnegie recognized the potential of the steel industry and focused on supplying essential needs, leading to great wealth

      Andrew Carnegie, despite his upbringing emphasizing honesty and respect for others, faced internal conflict as his overwhelming ambition clashed with these values. He pledged to retire from business at age 35 but couldn't resist his ambition. Carnegie believed that amassing wealth was a form of idolatry and aimed to serve humanity by getting rich and then giving it away. However, critics argued that he accumulated his fortune at the expense of his workers. Carnegie recognized the potential of the steel industry and saw an opportunity to provide a cheaper and more durable alternative to iron, which was essential for the expansion of infrastructure. He understood that focusing on supplying the needs of those building and constructing, rather than doing it himself, could lead to great wealth. This concept, similar to providing tools during a gold rush or creating infrastructure for growing businesses, is the thinking behind Carnegie's success in the steel industry.

    • The Bessemer process revolutionized steel production and contributed to Carnegie's successSeize opportunities during economic downturns and be financially prudent to build efficiently and save costs

      The invention of the Bessemer process by Henry Bessemer revolutionized the steel industry and played a crucial role in the rise of Andrew Carnegie's fortune. This innovation significantly increased the production speed and improved the quality of steel, making it possible for Carnegie to build his own steel mill and beat the British competition. However, just as Carnegie was fully committed to this venture, the Panic of 1873 hit, causing widespread economic devastation. Despite the challenges, Carnegie used this downturn to his advantage by expanding during a time when others were hesitant, resulting in substantial savings and enabling him to build his steel plant more efficiently. This lesson highlights the importance of seizing opportunities during economic downturns and being financially prudent. Additionally, it serves as a reminder of the risks and pitfalls of over-reliance on debt and high leverage, as seen in the case of the railroad companies that went bankrupt during the panic.

    • Andrew Carnegie's Focus on Cost ControlAndrew Carnegie's success in the steel industry was due to his meticulous cost accounting, focusing on lowering costs through reinvestment in technology and raw materials, and his famous quote 'cut the prices, scoop the market, watch the costs, and the profits will take care of themselves'.

      Learning from the discussion about Andrew Carnegie is his relentless focus on cost control. Carnegie's success in the steel industry was attributed to his meticulous cost accounting, making him the only firm with a near-fanatical devotion to it. He believed in treating manufacturing as a giant machine with constant retooling and improvement, inspired by the theory of evolution's survival of the fittest. Carnegie's approach may seem ruthless, but it was all about lowering costs through reinvestment in technology and focusing on raw materials. His famous quote, "cut the prices, scoop the market, watch the costs, and the profits will take care of themselves," reflects his belief in the importance of cost savings over revenue and profits, which are cyclical. By focusing on costs, Carnegie's companies made significant profits, with an annual revenue of $300,000,000 in 1880 dollars and $40,000,000 in 1900 dollars. His cost-cutting strategies, including vertical integration and buying coke ovens, set the stage for his continued success.

    • Expanding During Economic DownturnsDuring economic downturns, expanding your business and acquiring competitors' assets can lead to significant growth and wealth creation.

      Successful business strategies often involve expanding during economic downturns when others are hesitant. This lesson was learned by both Andrew Carnegie in steel and Henry Frick in coke. Frick, who came from humble beginnings like Carnegie, was already in the coke business and was acquiring as many coke ovens and businesses as he could. His obsession with details and understanding every aspect of his business allowed him to thrive even during economic hard times. By the end of 1873, Frick's company owned 200 coke ovens and controlled a quarter of all the coke in the area. Despite the economic collapse, Frick continued to purchase the assets of failed competitors, eventually controlling about 3,000 acres of coal lands and operating over 1,000 coke ovens. Frick's relentless acquisitions made him a millionaire by the age of 30 and eventually led him to become Carnegie's right-hand man in the steel industry. Frick's success in the coke industry demonstrates the importance of expanding during economic downturns and the value of understanding every detail of one's business.

    • Two Business Giants Formed an Unlikely PartnershipAndrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick, despite their differences, recognized the value in each other's strengths and formed a partnership, benefiting from each other's strategic advantages.

      Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick, two industrial titans of their time, formed a business partnership despite their stark differences. Frick, a hard-nosed businessman with a ruthless survival instinct, saw the advantage in aligning with Carnegie, who dominated the steel industry. Frick's acquisition strategy involved selling his stock to Carnegie, allowing him to gain significant control over Frick's coke company. This deal benefited Carnegie greatly, as his plants paid less for coke than competitors, saving him a substantial amount each year. Frick's motivation was strategic; he wanted to reduce his company's debt and ultimately acquire a stake in Carnegie's steel company. Despite their contrasting personalities and business approaches, they recognized the value in each other's strengths and formed a mutually beneficial partnership.

    • Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick's conflicting management stylesPartnerships require understanding and respect for each other's strengths and weaknesses, or they may lead to irreparable conflict.

      The partnership between Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick, despite initial success, was ultimately doomed due to their conflicting management styles and desires for control. Carnegie, accustomed to obedience, expected unquestioned subservience from Frick, but Frick, a risk-taker and independent thinker, bristled at Carnegie's demands. Their disagreements over labor disputes led to Frick's resignation multiple times, but ultimately, they both learned valuable lessons about each other. Carnegie recognized Frick's strength and managerial genius, while Frick realized Carnegie's self-interest. In the end, they reconciled and Frick was given increased equity and a more prominent role in the company, leading to a closer partnership. However, their unresolved issues eventually led to a falling out they never recovered from. This tale highlights the challenges of partnerships and the importance of understanding and respecting each other's strengths and weaknesses.

    • Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick's shared focus on cost control and technologyA clear focus on costs, adoption of new technologies, and strong leadership are essential for business success.

      Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick, two industrial titans of the late 1800s, shared a relentless focus on cost control and the adoption of new technologies to drive down costs. Frick, who had made his fortune in the coke industry, impressed Carnegie with his ambition, singleness of purpose, and lack of self-doubt. Carnegie, in turn, taught Frick the importance of focusing on costs above all else, believing that savings in production costs were permanent. This shared obsession with cost control and technological innovation allowed them to form a successful partnership in the steel industry. When Frick sought to take over as chairman of their combined operations, Carnegie recognized his management genius and agreed, leading to the creation of the largest and most powerful steel company in the world. This story demonstrates the importance of a clear focus on costs, the adoption of new technologies, and strong leadership in achieving business success.

    • Tension between Industrial Owners and Laborers leads to a Major StrikeDuring the Industrial Revolution, a 2¢ wage cut led to a major labor dispute and strike, highlighting the divide between labor and ownership and the potential consequences of prioritizing cost-cutting over human considerations.

      During this period in history, there was significant tension between industrial owners, like Carnegie and Frick of Carnegie Steel, and their laborers. This tension led to a major labor dispute and eventual strike. Carnegie, focused on cost-cutting, attempted to lower laborers' wages by just 2¢ per ton, which seemed insignificant to them but would have saved the company only $20,000. This decision, despite its small financial impact, led to a major conflict. Carnegie's worldview, which prioritized cost-cutting regardless of the impact on people, clashed with the reality that men are not inanimate objects like minerals or vegetables. They fight back. The situation escalated, resulting in violence and even deaths. Carnegie was in Scotland during this time, leaving Frick in charge. Frick hired Pinkerton detectives to protect the plant, leading to a violent confrontation between the detectives and the striking workers. Ultimately, this incident highlights the significant divide between labor and ownership during this era and the potential consequences of prioritizing cost-cutting over human considerations.

    • Emotions Blur Judgment in Labor DisputesEmotions can cloud judgment during labor disputes, leading to destructive outcomes. Instead, consider compromises and alternative solutions to avoid violence and loss of jobs and lives.

      The unwillingness of both sides to compromise during labor disputes can lead to destructive outcomes. As seen in the Carnegie Steel strike, emotions ran high, and the refusal to back down resulted in violence and the dissolution of the union. The workers, feeling desperate due to their financial situations, were willing to risk their lives for their jobs, while the management held all the power and leverage. This situation ultimately led to the loss of jobs and lives for many. It's important to remember that emotions can blur judgment, and it's essential to consider the potential consequences of our actions before taking extreme measures. Instead of resorting to violence, finding alternative solutions and compromises is a more productive approach.

    • The Homestead Strike of 1892: A Turning Point in Business PartnershipsClear communication, trust, and respect are essential for successful business partnerships. The Homestead Strike of 1892 between Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick illustrates the consequences of a breakdown in these areas.

      Effective communication and trust are crucial in any business partnership. The Homestead Strike of 1892 marked the beginning of the end of the partnership between Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick. Their disagreements over business decisions led to a rift between them, and the incident with WJ Rainey's coke holdings was the final straw. Frick's resignation and Carnegie's dismissive response led to a bitter exchange of letters, with Frick accusing Carnegie of betrayal and Carnegie dismissing Frick's concerns. Despite their reconciliation, the partnership was never the same. Frick's personality came out in a scathing memo where he demanded that Carnegie purchase his shares and let them part ways. The incident highlights the importance of clear communication, trust, and respect in a business partnership. Frick's advice to keep working despite setbacks also stands out as valuable life advice. The incident was a turning point in industrial history, but the lessons it offers about partnerships and business ethics remain relevant today.

    • Business dispute between Carnegie and Frick over steel company valueRigidity in business partnerships can lead to missed opportunities, distrust, and separation. Effective communication, flexibility, and compromise are essential for success.

      During a business dispute between partners Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick over the value and sale of Carnegie Steel, Carnegie's insistence on holding to the company's outdated book value led to significant lost opportunities and ultimately, a falling out between the two. Despite their longtime friendship and business relationships, the partners' inability to compromise and reevaluate the company's worth resulted in missed potential gains, distrust, and eventual separation. Carnegie's refusal to disclose the identity of potential buyers and his insistence on a nonrefundable fee for a 90-day option further strained their relationship. Ultimately, Carnegie's push for control and Frick's resistance led to a power struggle, with Carnegie ousting Frick from both Carnegie Steel and his own company, HCFCOKE. This situation serves as a reminder of the importance of flexibility, trust, and effective communication in business partnerships.

    • Business Dispute Between Carnegie and FrickDespite the ironclad agreement, the dispute between Carnegie and Frick escalated, with each trying to outmaneuver the other, potentially exposing the company's financial details to the public.

      The behavior of Andrew Carnegie and Henry Frick during their business dispute was childish and emotionally charged, with each trying to lash out at each other. Carnegie, feeling obstructed by Frick, invoked the ironclad agreement to remove him from the company and pay him a fraction of the stock's worth. Frick, in response, hired the same attorney who drafted the agreement to contest the decision in court. By doing so, Frick was able to discover the agreement's faults and file a lawsuit against Carnegie, which could potentially expose the company's financial details to the public, a disadvantage for Carnegie given the negative public perception of their handling of a previous strike.

    • Carnegie and Frick's Emotional BreakdownBusiness success doesn't make one immune to emotional decisions, which can lead to costly mistakes and damaged relationships.

      Even the most successful businesspeople can make irrational decisions driven by emotions, leading to costly consequences. The case of Carnegie and Frick illustrates this well. Carnegie, despite his wealth, found himself in a predicament when he couldn't prove the true value of Carnegie Steel in court. If the value was less than claimed, it would deter potential buyers. Carnegie and Frick's disagreement escalated, leading to a breakdown in their partnership and friendship. They went from being logical and cost-effective businessmen to being entirely emotional and irrational. This tale serves as a reminder that it's essential to keep emotions in check and strive for a balance between logic and reason. Business success doesn't make one immune to making mistakes, and the consequences can be severe, including damaged relationships and negative publicity. By being mindful of our actions and reactions, we can make better decisions and avoid costly mistakes.

    • Emotion vs. Logic in Business Decisions: The Story of Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay FrickMaking emotionally charged decisions can lead to compromises and larger financial gains for others, while logic and reason often benefit both parties in the long run.

      Making important decisions when emotionally charged is not usually the best course of action. This was evident in the story of Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick, two industrialists whose emotional states led them to compromise during a business dispute. Despite having previously turned down a lower offer for Carnegie Steel, Carnegie and Frick eventually agreed to merge the companies at a lower valuation than before, with Frick removing himself from management and receiving a significant payout. This decision, made during a time of heightened emotion, ultimately resulted in a larger financial gain for Frick than he would have initially received. This story serves as a reminder that logic and reason are often more beneficial than emotion when making significant decisions. Additionally, the podcast mentioned in the text offers further exploration of the lives and lessons from these two intriguing figures. If you're interested in learning more, consider purchasing the book through the provided link to support the podcast.

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    (2:30) Sam Walton built his business on a very simple idea: Buy cheap. Sell low. Every day. With a smile.

    (2:30) People confuse a simple idea with an ordinary person. Sam Walton was no ordinary person.

    (4:30) Traits Sam Walton had his entire life: A sense of duty. Extreme discipline. Unbelievable levels of endurance.

    (5:30) His dad taught him the secret to life was work, work, work.

    (5:30) Sam felt the world was something he could conquer.

    (6:30) The Great Depression was a big leveler of people. Sam chose to rise above it. He was determined to be a success.

    (11:30) You can make a lot of different mistakes and still recover if you run an efficient operation. Or you can be brilliant and still go out of business if you’re too inefficient. — Sam Walton: Made In America by Sam Walton. (Founders #234)

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    (33:30) At the start we were so amateurish and so far behind K Mart just ignored us. They let us stay out here, while we developed and learned our business. They gave us a 10 year period to grow.

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    (43:30) Hardly a day has passed without Sam reminding an employee: "Remember Wal-Mart's Golden Rule: Number one, the customer Is always right; number two, if the customer isn't right, refer to rule number one.”

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    (2:00) My father was a self-made man who had known extreme poverty in his youth and had a practically limitless capacity for hard work.

    (6:00) I acted as my own geologist, legal advisor, drilling superintendent, explosives expert, roughneck and roustabout.

    (8:00) Michael Jordan: The Life by Roland Lazenby. (Founders #212) 

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    (20:00) Optimism is a moral duty. Pessimism aborts opportunity.

    (21:00) I studied the lives of great men and women. And I found that the men and women who got to the top were those who did the jobs they had in hand, with everything they had of energy and enthusiasm and hard work.

    (22:00) 98 percent of our attention was devoted to the task at hand. We are believers in Carlyle's Prescription, that the job a man is to do is the job at hand and not see what lies dimly in the distance. — Charlie Munger

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    (43:00) Years ago, businessmen automatically kept administrative overhead to an absolute minimum. The present day trend is in exactly the opposite direction. The modern business mania is to build greater and ever greater paper shuffling empires.

    (44:00) Les Schwab Pride In Performance: Keep It Going!by Les Schwab (Founders #330) 

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    (51:00) There is always something wrong everywhere.

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    You can also ask SAGE (the Founders Notes AI assistant) any question and SAGE will read all my notes, highlights, and every transcript from every episode for you.

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    (8:00) On his dad sending him to military school: The strict, regimented environment was good for me.

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    -They have an innate capacity to think on a large scale

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    (38:00) A hatred of failure has always been part of my nature and one of the more pronounced motivating forces in my life.  Once I have committed myself to any undertaking, a powerful inner drive cuts in and I become intent on seeing it through to a satisfactory conclusion.

    (38:00) My own nature is such that I am able to concentrate on whatever is before me and am not easily distracted from it.

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    (54:00) My father's influence and example where the principle forces that formed my nature and character.

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    "Learning from history is a form of leverage." — Charlie Munger. Founders Notes gives you the superpower to learn from history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand.

    Get access to Founders Notes here

    You can search all my notes and highlights from every book I've ever read for the podcast. 

    You can also ask SAGE any question and SAGE will read all my notes, highlights, and every transcript from every episode for you.

     A few questions I've asked SAGE recently: 

    What are the most important leadership lessons from history's greatest entrepreneurs?

    Can you give me a summary of Warren Buffett's best ideas? (Substitute any founder covered on the podcast and you'll get a comprehensive and easy to read summary of their ideas) 

    How did Edwin Land find new employees to hire? Any unusual sources to find talent?

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    (0:01) At the age of twelve I was an orphan.

    (1:00) My uncles made me become self-reliant very early in life. Looking back, I believe that it is to this, that much of my success is due.

    (9:00) The idea of wearing a watch on one's wrist was thought to be contrary to the conception of masculinity.

    (10:00) Prior to World War 1 wristwatches for men did not exist.

    (11:00) Business is problems. The best companies are just effective problem solving machines.

    (12:00) My personal opinion is that pocket watches will almost completely disappear and that wrist watches will replace them definitively! I am not mistaken in this opinion and you will see that I am right." —Hans Wilsdorf, 1914

    (14:00) The highest order bit is belief: I had very early realized the manifold possibilities of the wristlet watch and, feeling sure that they would materialize in time, I resolutely went on my way. Rolex was thus able to get several years ahead of other watch manufacturers who persisted in clinging to the pocket watch as their chief product.

    (16:00) Clearly, the companies for whom the economics of twenty-four-hour news would have made the most sense were the Big Three broadcasters. They already had most of what was needed— studios, bureaus, reporters, anchors almost everything but a belief in cable.   —  Ted Turner's Autobiography (Founders #327)

    (20:00) Business Breakdowns #65 Rolex: Timeless Excellence

    (27:00)   Rolex was effectively the first watch brand to have real marketing dollars put behind a watch. Rolex did this in a concentrated way and they've continued to do it in a way that is simply just unmatched by others in their industry.

    (28:00) It's tempting during recession to cut back on consumer advertising. At the start of each of the last three recessions, the growth of spending on such advertising had slowed by an average of 27 percent. But consumer studies of those recessions had showed that companies that didn't cut their ads had, in the recovery, captured the most market share. So we didn't cut our ad budget. In fact, we raised it to gain brand recognition, which continued advertising sustains. — Four Seasons: The Story of a Business Philosophy by Isadore Sharp. (Founders #184)

    (32:00) Social proof is a form of leverage. — Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charlie Munger. (Founders #329)

    (34:00) What really matters is Hans understood the opportunity better than anybody else, and invested heavily in developing the technology to bring his ideas to fruition.

    (35:00) On keeping the main thing the main thing for decades: In developing and extending my business, I have always had certain aims in mind, a course from which I never deviated.

    (41:00) Rolex wanted to only be associated with the best. They ran an ad with the headline: Men who guide the destinies of the world, where Rolex watches.

    (43:00) Opportunity creates more opportunites. The Oyster unlocked the opportunity for the Perpetual.

    (44:00) The easier you make something for the customer, the larger the market gets: “My vision was to create the first fully packaged computer. We were no longer aiming for the handful of hobbyists who liked to assemble their own computers, who knew how to buy transformers and keyboards. For every one of them there were a thousand people who would want the machine to be ready to run.” — Steve Jobs

    (48:00) More sources:

    Rolex Jubilee: Vade Mecum by Hans Wilsdorf

    Rolex Magazine: The Hans Wilsdorf Years

    Hodinkee: Inside the Manufacture. Going Where Few Have Gone Before -- Inside All Four Rolex Manufacturing Facilities 

    Vintage Watchstraps Blog: Hans Wilsdorf and Rolex

    Business Breakdowns #65 Rolex: Timeless Excellence

    Luxury Strategy: Break the Rules of Marketing to Build Luxury Brands by Jean Noel Kapferer and Vincent Bastien 

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    #350 How To Sell Like Steve Jobs

    #350 How To Sell Like Steve Jobs

    What I learned from reading The Presentation Secrets of Steve Jobs: How to Be Insanely Great in Front of Any Audience by Carmine Gallo 

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    (1:00) You've got to start with the customer experience and work back toward the technology—not the other way around.  —Steve Jobs in 1997

    (6:00) Why should I care = What does this do for me?

    (6:00) The Match King: Ivar Kreuger, The Financial Genius Behind a Century of Wall Street Scandals by Frank Partnoy.  (Founders #348)

    (7:00) Easy to understand, easy to spread.

    (8:00) An American Saga: Juan Trippe and His Pan Am Empire by Robert Daley 

    (8:00) The Fish That Ate the Whale: The Life and Times of America's Banana King by Rich Cohen. (Founders #255)

    (9:00)  love how crystal clear this value proposition is. Instead of 3 days driving on dangerous road, it’s 1.5 hours by air. That’s a 48x improvement in time savings. This allows the company to work so much faster. The best B2B companies save businesses time.

    (10:00) Great Advertising Founders Episodes:

    Albert Lasker (Founders #206)

    Claude Hopkins (Founders #170 and #207)

    David Ogilvy (Founders #82, 89, 169, 189, 306, 343) 

    (12:00) Advertising which promises no benefit to the consumer does not sell, yet the majority of campaigns contain no promise whatever. (That is the most important sentence in this book. Read it again.) — Ogilvy on Advertising 

    (13:00) Repeat, repeat, repeat. Human nature has a flaw. We forget that we forget.

    (19:00) Start with the problem. Do not start talking about your product before you describe the problem your product solves.

    (23:00) The Invisible Billionaire: Daniel Ludwig by Jerry Shields. (Founders #292)

    (27:00) Being so well known has advantages of scale—what you might call an informational advantage.

    Psychologists use the term social proof. We are all influenced-subconsciously and, to some extent, consciously-by what we see others do and approve.

    Therefore, if everybody's buying something, we think it's better.

    We don't like to be the one guy who's out of step.

    The social proof phenomenon, which comes right out of psychology, gives huge advantages to scale.

    —  the NEW Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charlie Munger (Founders #329)

    (29:00) Marketing is theatre.

    (32:00) Belief is irresistible. — Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil Knight.  (Founders #186)

    (35:00) I think one of the things that really separates us from the high primates is that we’re tool builders. I read a study that measured the efficiency of locomotion for various species on the planet. The condor used the least energy to move a kilometer. And, humans came in with a rather unimpressive showing, about a third of the way down the list. It was not too proud a showing for the crown of creation. So, that didn’t look so good. But, then somebody at Scientific American had the insight to test the efficiency of locomotion for a man on a bicycle. And, a man on a bicycle, a human on a bicycle, blew the condor away, completely off the top of the charts.

    And that’s what a computer is to me. What a computer is to me is it’s the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with, it’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds.

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    #349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

    #349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

    What I learned from reading Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success by Ken Segall. 

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    Can you give me a summary of Warren Buffett's best ideas? (Substitute any founder covered on the podcast and you'll get a comprehensive and easy to read summary of their ideas) 

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    (1:30) Steve wanted Apple to make a product that was simply amazing and amazingly simple.

    (3:00) If you don’t zero in on your bureaucracy every so often, you will naturally build in layers. You never set out to add bureaucracy. You just get it. Period. Without even knowing it. So you always have to be looking to eliminate it.  — Sam Walton: Made In America by Sam Walton. (Founders #234)

    (5:00) Steve was always easy to understand. He would either approve a demo, or he would request to see something different next time. Whenever Steve reviewed a demo, he would say, often with highly detailed specificity, what he wanted to happen next.  — Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs by Ken Kocienda. (Founders #281)

    (7:00) Watch this video. Andy Miller tells GREAT Steve Jobs stories

    (10:00) Many are familiar with the re-emergence of Apple. They may not be as familiar with the fact that it has few, if any parallels.
    When did a founder ever return to the company from which he had been rudely rejected to engineer a turnaround as complete and spectacular as Apple's? While turnarounds are difficult in any circumstances they are doubly difficult in a technology company. It is not too much of a stretch to say that Steve founded Apple not once but twice. And the second time he was alone. 

    —  Return to the Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and the Creation of Appleby Michael Moritz.

    (15:00) If the ultimate decision maker is involved every step of the way the quality of the work increases.

    (20:00) "You asked the question, What was your process like?' I kind of laugh because process is an organized way of doing things. I have to remind you, during the 'Walt Period' of designing Disneyland, we didn't have processes. We just did the work. Processes came later. All of these things had never been done before. Walt had gathered up all these people who had never designed a theme park, a Disneyland. So we're in the same boat at one time, and we figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly as we go along with it and not even discuss plans, timing, or anything. We just worked and Walt just walked around and had suggestions." — Disney's Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow. (Founders #347)

    (23:00) The further you get away from 1 the more complexity you invite in.

    (25:00) Your goal: A single idea expressed clearly.

    (26:00) Jony Ive: Steve was the most focused person I’ve met in my life

    (28:00) Editing your thinking is an act of service.

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    Michael Jordan In His Own Words

    Michael Jordan In His Own Words

    What I learned from reading Driven From Within by Michael Jordan and Mark Vancil. 

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    Episode Outline: 

    Players who practice hard when no one is paying attention play well when everyone is watching.

    It's hard, but it's fair. I live by those words. 

    To this day, I don't enjoy working. I enjoy playing, and figuring out how to connect playing with business. To me, that's my niche. People talk about my work ethic as a player, but they don't understand. What appeared to be hard work to others was simply playing for me.

    You have to be uncompromised in your level of commitment to whatever you are doing, or it can disappear as fast as it appeared. 

    Look around, just about any person or entity achieving at a high level has the same focus. The morning after Tiger Woods rallied to beat Phil Mickelson at the Ford Championship in 2005, he was in the gym by 6:30 to work out. No lights. No cameras. No glitz or glamour. Uncompromised. 

    I knew going against the grain was just part of the process.

    The mind will play tricks on you. The mind was telling you that you couldn't go any further. The mind was telling you how much it hurt. The mind was telling you these things to keep you from reaching your goal. But you have to see past that, turn it all off if you are going to get where you want to be.

    I would wake up in the morning thinking: How am I going to attack today?

    I’m not so dominant that I can’t listen to creative ideas coming from other people. Successful people listen. Those who don’t listen, don’t survive long.

    In all honesty, I don't know what's ahead. If you ask me what I'm going to do in five years, I can't tell you. This moment? Now that's a different story. I know what I'm doing moment to moment, but I have no idea what's ahead. I'm so connected to this moment that I don't make assumptions about what might come next, because I don't want to lose touch with the present. Once you make assumptions about something that might happen, or might not happen, you start limiting the potential outcomes. 

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    Founders
    en-usMay 12, 2024

    #348 The Financial Genius Behind A Century of Wall Street Scandals: Ivar Kreuger

    #348 The Financial Genius Behind A Century of Wall Street Scandals: Ivar Kreuger

    What I learned from reading The Match King: Ivar Kreuger, The Financial Genius Behind a Century of Wall Street Scandals by Frank Partnoy. 

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    Episode Outline: 

    1. Ivar was charismatic. His charisma was not natural. Ivar spent hours every day just preparing to talk. He practiced his lines for hours like great actors do.

    2. Ivar’s first pitch was simple, easy to understand, and legitimate: By investing in Swedish Match, Americans could earn profits from a monopoly abroad.

    3. Joseph Duveen noticed that Europe had plenty of art and America had plenty of money, and his entire astonishing career was the product of that simple observation. — The Days of Duveen by S.N. Behrman.  (Founders #339 Joseph Duveen: Robber Baron Art Dealer)

    4. Ivar studied Rockefeller and Carnegie: Ivar's plan was to limit competition and increase profits by securing a monopoly on match sales throughout the world, mimicking the nineteenth century oil, sugar, and steel trusts.

    5. When investors were manic, they would purchase just about anything. But during the panic that inevitably followed mania, the opposite was true. No one would buy.

    6. The problem isn’t getting rich. The problem is staying sane. — Charlie Munger

    7. Ivar understood human psychology. If something is limited and hard to get to that increases desire. This works for both products (like a Ferrari) and people (celebrities). Ivar was becoming a business celebrity.

    8.  I’ve never believed in risking what my family and friends have and need in order to pursue what they don't have and don't need. — The Essays of Warren Buffett by Warren Buffett and Lawrence Cunningham. (Founders #227)

    9. Great ideas are simple ideas: Ivar hooked Durant with his simple, brilliant idea: government loans in exchange for match monopolies.

    10. Ivar wrote to his parents, "I cannot believe that I am intended to spend my life making money for second-rate people. I shall bring American methods back home. Wait and see - I shall do great things. I'm bursting with ideas. I am only wondering which to carry out first."

    11. Ivar’s network of companies was far too complex for anyone to understand: It was like a corporate family tree from hell, and it extended into obscurity.

    12. “Victory in our industry is spelled survival.”   —Steve Jobs

    13. Ivar's financial statements were sloppy and incomplete. Yet investors nevertheless clamored to buy his securities.

    14. As more cash flowed in the questions went away. This is why Ponzi like schemes can last so long. People don’t want to believe. They don’t want the cash to stop.

    15. A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders #222)

    16.  A summary of Charlie Munger on incentives:

    1. We all underestimate the power of incentives.
    2. Never, ever think about anything else before the power of incentives.
    3. The most important rule: get the incentives right.

    17. This is nuts! Fake phones and hired actors!

    Next to the desk was a table with three telephones. The middle phone was a dummy, a non-working phone that Ivar could cause to ring by stepping on a button under the desk. That button was a way to speed the exit of talkative visitors who were staying too long. Ivar also used the middle phone to impress his supporters. When Percy Rockefeller visited Ivar pretended to receive calls from various European government officials, including Mussolini and Stalin. That evening, Ivar threw a lavish party and introduced Rockefeller to numerous "ambassadors" from various countries, who actually were movie extras he had hired for the night.

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    #347 How Walt Disney Built His Greatest Creation: Disneyland

    #347 How Walt Disney Built His Greatest Creation: Disneyland

    What I learned from reading Disney's Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow. 

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    (8:00) When in 1955 we heard that Disney had opened an amusement park under his own name, it appeared certain that we could not look forward to anything new from Mr. Disney.

    We were quite wrong.

    He had, instead, created his masterpiece.

    (13:00) This may be the greatest product launch of all time: He had run eight months of his television program. He hadn't named his new show Walt Disney Presents or The Wonderful World of Walt Disney.

    It was called simply Disneyland, and every weekly episode was an advertisement for the still unborn park.

    (15:00) Disneyland is the extension of the powerful personality of one man.

    (15:00) The creation of Disneyland was Walt Disney’s personal taste in physical form.

    (24:00) How strange that the boss would just drop it. Walt doesn’t give up. So he must have something else in mind.

    (26:00) Their mediocrity is my opportunity. It is an opportunity because there is so much room for improvement.

    (36:00) Roy Disney never lost his calm understanding that the company's prosperity rested not on the rock of conventional business practices, but on the churning, extravagant, perfectionist imagination of his younger brother.

    (41:00) Walt Disney’s decision to not relinquish his TV rights to United Artists was made in 1936. This decision paid dividends 20 years later. Hold on. Technology -- developed by other people -- constantly benefited Disney's business. Many such cases in the history of entrepreneurship.

    (43:00) Walt Disney did not look around. He looked in. He looked in to his personal taste and built a business that was authentic to himself.

    (54:00) "You asked the question, What was your process like?' I kind of laugh because process is an organized way of doing things. I have to remind you, during the 'Walt Period' of designing Disneyland, we didn't have processes.

    We just did the work. Processes came later. All of these things had never been done before.

    Walt had gathered up all these people who had never designed a theme park, a Disneyland.

    So we're in the same boat at one time, and we figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly as we go along with it and not even discuss plans, timing, or anything.

    We just worked and Walt just walked around and had suggestions."

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    Related Episodes

    #98 Enzo Ferrari (the making of an automobile empire)

    #98 Enzo Ferrari (the making of an automobile empire)

    What I learned from reading Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte.

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    [0:01] Ferrari was animated by an extraordinary passion that led him to build a product with no equal

    [3:52] Lee Iacocca on why Enzo Ferrari will go as the greatest car manufacturer in history: "Ferrari spent every dollar chasing perfection." 

    [8:50] Business lessons from his father  

    [11:47] Enzo Ferrari was not interested in school. He wanted to start working immediately. 

    [16:36] The deaths of his father and brother 

    [18:20] No job. No money. No connections. A young man desperate to succeed in life. 

    [23:06] He learned something that he would never forget for the rest of his life: Not even the best driver had any chance of victory if he was not at the wheel of the best car

    [24:20] Starting his first business which ends in bankruptcy.

    [28:31] Enzo learned from those who already accomplished what he was trying to do. 

    [31:10] He does the best possible job at whatever task he is given. Even if he doesn't want to do it. Enzo focuses on being useful. 

    [33:35] A young Enzo Ferrari is plagued with doubts and close to a nervous breakdown. 

    [38:28] The large leave gaps for the small: The start of Scuderia Ferrari. 

    [49:38] Enzo Ferrari at 33 years old. 

    [51:30] For Enzo Ferrari it was always day 1.

    [52:33] Alfa Romeo pulls the plug/the end of Scuderia Ferrari, the birth of Ferrari.

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    #99 Carroll Shelby (My name is Carroll Shelby and performance is my business)

    #99 Carroll Shelby (My name is Carroll Shelby and performance is my business)

    What I learned from reading Carroll Shelby: The Authorized Biography by Rinsey Mills. 

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    ---

    [3:27] I love everything about this person. I like the way he thought. I like the way he lived his life.

    [3:38] It is almost unbelievable all the different events that could happen in one human lifetime.

    [3:52] He lived to 89 years old and he used every single year that he was alive.

    [5:22] He could talk his way out of anything.

    [6:40] He knew what he wanted. He didn't want anybody else telling him what to do.

    [7:41] He had a love for anything that would go fast.

    [10:48] He didn’t know what to do with his life.

    [15:54] Follow your natural drift. —Charlie Munger

    [17:00] I can't work for anybody.

    [18:42]  He has fun his entire life. As soon as they stop being fun he runs away.

    [22:20] A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders #93 and #222) 

    [24:17]  Money only solves money problems.

    [26:32] Scratching around doing insignificant races with inferior machinery wasn't an option in which he could see any future.

    [27:26] Whatever setbacks he encountered he was invariably able to bounce back through a combination of self-belief and an aptitude for making other people believe in him.

    [27:45] Enthusiasm and passion are universal attractive traits.

    [28:05] Go Like Hell: Ford, Ferrari, and Their Battle for Speed and Glory at Le Mans by A.J. Baime. (Founders #97) and Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte. (Founders #98) 

    [30:29] The Purple Cow by Seth Godin

    [32:22] Distant Force: A Memoir of the Teledyne Corporation and the Man Who Created It by Dr. George Roberts. (Founders #110)

    [32:38] Having extreme focus in the information age is a superpower.

    [36:13] Racing was a means to an end. He wanted to build his own car. That was his main goal.

    [42:34] He still didn't know quite how he was going to do it but if he was finally going to produce his own sports car.

    [53:48] All big things start small.

    [58:31] 12 months after Shelby was deeply depressed his life is completely different and the Shelby Cobra starts to take shape.

    [1:00:06] A summary of the early days of Shelby Automotive: Everything had to be done tomorrow and by the cheapest method possible.

    [1:01:12] It wasn't uncommon for them to work until two or three in the morning and be back down there at 7:30 the next morning.

    [1:02:22] There's just something special about a group of highly talented, smart people working together for a common goal.

    [1:03:48] Shelby hates company politics. That is why he wanted to run a smaller company.

    [1:17:30] My name is Carroll Shelby and performance is my business. 

    “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”

    — Gareth

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    #132 Edwin Land (Steve Jobs's Hero)

    #132 Edwin Land (Steve Jobs's Hero)

    What I learned from reading The Instant Image: Edwin Land and the Polaroid Experience by Mark Olshaker. 

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    [1:42] The word “problem” had completely departed from Edwin land's vocabulary to be replaced by the word “opportunity”. 

    [2:01] What was it about this man and his company that allowed such confidence and seeming lack of concern with the traditional top priorities of American business? 

    [2:38] There is something unique about Polaroid having to do both with the human dimension of the company, and with a unity of vision of its founder and guiding genius.  

    [3:36] Perhaps the single most important aspect of Land's character is his ability to regard things around him in a new and totally different way.  

    [4:14] Right from the beginning of his career Land had paid scant attention to what experts had to say, trusting his own instincts instead.  

    [4:49] Land has always believed that for any item sufficiently ingenious and intriguing, a new market could be created. Conventional wisdom has little capacity with which to evaluate a market that did not exist prior to the product that defines it. 

    [5:21] He feels that creativity is an individual thing. Not generally applicable to group generation. 

    [5:52] Land is a man deeply caught up in the creative potential of the individual. 

    [6:33] An institution is the lengthened shadow of one man. 

    [7:43] Apple founder Steve Jobs once hailed Edwin Land, the founder of Polaroid and the father of instant photography, as "a national treasure" and once confessed to a reporter that meeting Land was "like visiting a shrine." By his own admission, Jobs modeled much of his own career after Land’s. Both Jobs and Land stand out today as unique and towering figures in the history of technology. Neither had a college degree, but both built highly successful and innovative organizations. Jobs and Land were both perfectionists with an almost fanatic attentiveness to detail, in addition to being consummate showmen and instinctive marketers. In many ways, Edwin Land was the original Steve Jobs.  

    [8:36] There's a rule that they don't teach you at the Harvard business school. It is, if anything is worth doing it's worth doing to excess

    [11:22] Steve Jobs: I always thought of myself as a humanities person as a kid, but I liked electronics. Then I read something that one of my heroes, Edwin Land of Polaroid, said about the importance of people who could stand at the intersection of humanities and sciences. And I decided that's what I wanted to do.  

    [12:51] In a world full of cooks, Edwin Land was a chef. [Link to The Cook and The Chef: Elon Musk’s Secret Sauce]  

    [19:34] Land was asked what he wanted to be when he was younger: I had two goals. To be the world's greatest scientist and to be the world's greatest novelist. 

    [21:28] Everyone acknowledged that the future of Polaroid corporation would be determined by what went on in the brain of Edwin Land. 

    [22:01] My motto is very personal and may not fit anyone else or any other company. It is: Don't do anything that someone else can do.  

    [22:54] Fortunately our company has been one which has been dedicated throughout its life to making only things which others can not make.  

    [25:06] Land had far more faith in his own potential, and that of the company he inspired, than did any of the experts looking in from the outside.  

    [27:30] Polaroid failed to build a successful company by selling to other businesses: Each [product] would have involved millions of dollars in revenue for the company, but each invention involved a certain degree of transformation of an existing industry controlled by an existing power structure. From this Land realizes he needs to control the relationship with the customer. He realizes he needs to sell directly to the end user

    [36:16] Edwin Land is inspired by, and learned from, people that came before him. One example of this is Alexander Graham Bell. Edwin Land is not worried about the marketing [of a new product] because Bell went through the same thing: Land apparently lost little sleep over the initial situation, calling to mind that the same sort of reaction had greeted the public introduction of Bell's telephone, 70 years earlier. The telephone had been a dominant symbol in Land's thinking. He began making numerous connections between his camera and the telephone.  

    [40:16] Over the years, I have learned that every significant invention has several characteristics. By definition it must be startling, unexpected, and must come into a world that is not prepared for it. If the world were prepared for it, it would not be much of an invention.  

    [40:46] It is the public's role to resist [a new invention, a new product/service]. 

    [41:29] It took us a lifetime to understand that if we're to make a new commodity —a commodity of beauty —then we must be prepared for the extensive teaching program needed to prepare society for the magnitude of our invention

    [45:12] Only the individual— and not the large group— can see a part of the world in a totally new and different way.  

    [48:08] Land's view is that a company should be scientifically daring and financially conservative. 

    [50:30] To understand more about every aspect of light, Edwin Land read every single book on light that was available in the New York City Public Library. That reminded me of one of my favorite lectures ever: Running Down A Dream: How to Succeed and Thrive in a Career You Love

    [51:59] Land on the problem with formal education: Young people for the most part —unless they are geniuses— after a very short time in college, give up any hope of being individually great. 

    [54:16] Among all the components and Land's intellectual arsenal, the chief one seems to be simple concentration.  

    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers.”— Gareth

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    #249 Steve Jobs In His Own Words

    #249 Steve Jobs In His Own Words

    What I learned from reading I, Steve: Steve Jobs In His Own Words by George Beahm.

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    [1:05]

    On Steve Jobs

    #5 Steve Jobs: The Biography
    #19 Becoming Steve Jobs: The Evolution of a Reckless Upstart into a Visionary Leader
    #76 Return To The Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and The Creation of Apple
    #77 Steve Jobs & The NeXT Big Thing
    #204 Inside Steve Jobs' Brain
    #214 Steve Jobs: The Exclusive Biography
    #235 To Pixar And Beyond: My Unlikely Journey with Steve Jobs to Make Entertainment History

    Bonus Episodes on Steve Jobs

    Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success (Between #112 and #113)
    Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs (Between #110 and #111)

    On Jony Ive and Steve Jobs

    #178 Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Products

    On Ed Catmull and Steve Jobs

    #34 Creativity Inc: Overcoming The Unseen Forces That Stand In The Way of True Inspiration

    On Steve Jobs and several other technology company founders

    #157 The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution

    #208 In the Company of Giants: Candid Conversations With the Visionaries of the Digital World

    [3:13] We're not going to be the first to this party, but we're going to be the best.

    [4:54] Company Focus: We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. We just want to make great products.

    [5:06] The roots of Apple were to build computers for people, not for corporations. The world doesn't need another Dell or Compaq.

    [5:52] Nearly all the founders I’ve read about have a handful of ideas/principles that are important to them and they just repeat and pound away at them forever.

    [7:00] You can oftentimes arrive at some very elegant and simple solutions. Most people just don't put in the time or energy to get there.

    [8:09] I think of Founders as a tool for working professionals. And what that tool does is it gets ideas from the history of entrepreneurship into your brain so then you can use them in your work. It just so happens that a podcast is a great way to achieve that goal.

    [8:48] Tim Ferriss Podcast #596 with Ed Thorp

    [8:50] A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders 222)

    [10:43] In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains and the sofa. But to me, nothing could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the fundamental soul of a man-made creation that ends up expressing itself in successive outer layers of the product or service.

    [12:05] The Essential Difference: The Lisa people wanted to do something great. And the Mac people want to do something insanely great. The difference shows.

    [14:21] Sure, what we do has to make commercial sense, but it's never the starting point. We start with the product and the user experience.

    [15:57] Becoming Steve Jobs: The Evolution of a Reckless Upstart into a Visionary Leader by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli. (Founders #19)

    [16:41] We had a passion to do this one simple thing.

    [16:51] And that's really important because he's saying I wasn't trying to build the biggest company. I wasn't trying to build a trillion dollar company. It wasn't doing any of that. Those things happen later as a by-product of what I was actually focused on, which is just building the best computer that I wanted to use.

    [17:14] In the Company of Giants: Candid Conversations With the Visionaries of the Digital World by Rama Dev Jager and Rafael Ortiz.  (Founders #208 )

    [17:41] It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you're doing. Picasso had a saying: good artists copy, great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.

    [20:29] Our belief was that if we kept putting great products in front of customers, they would continue to open their wallets.

    [21:06]  A Mind at Play: How Claude Shannon Invented the Information Age by Jimmy Soni and Rob Goodman (Founders #95) “A very small percentage of the population produces the greatest proportion of the important ideas. There are some people if you shoot one idea into the brain, you will get half an idea out. There are other people who are beyond this point at which they produce two ideas for each idea sent in.”

    [22:29] Edwin land episodes:

    Insisting On The Impossible: The Life of Edwin Land and Instant: The Story of Polaroid (Founders #40)

    The Instant Image: Edwin Land and The Polaroid Experience by Mark Olshaker. (Founders #132)

    Land’s Polaroid: A Company and The Man Who Invented It by Peter C. Wensberg. (Founders #133)

    A Triumph of Genius: Edwin Land, Polaroid, and the Kodak Patent War by Ronald K. Fierstein. (Founders #134)

    [25:01] Macintosh was basically this relatively small company in Cupertino, California, taking on the goliath, IBM, and saying "Wait a minute, your way is wrong. This is not the way we want computers to go. This is not the legacy we want to leave. This is not what we want our kids to be learning. This is wrong and we are going to show you the right way to do it and here it is and it is so much better.

    [27:47] Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Productsby Leander Kahney. (
    (Founders #178)

    [29:00] Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte (Founders #98)

    [34:39] On meeting his wife, Laurene: I was in the parking lot, with the key in the car, and I thought to myself: If this is my last night on earth, would I rather spend it at a business meeting or with this woman? I ran across the parking lot, asked her if she'd have dinner with me. She said yes, we walked into town, and we've been together ever since.

    [37:26] It's not about pop culture, and it's not about fooling people, and it's not about convincing people that they want something they don't. We figure out what we want. And I think we're pretty good at having the right discipline to think through whether a lot of other people are going to want it, too. That's what we get paid to do.

    [41:29] Constellation Software Inc. President's Letters by Mark Leonard. (Founders #246)

    [42:30] Made in Japan: Akio Morita and Sony by Akio Morita. (Founders #102)

    [44:36] Victory in our industry is spelled survival.

    [45:21] Once you get into the problem you see that it's complicated, and you come up with all these convoluted solutions. That's where most people stop, and the solutions tend to work for a while. But the really great person will keep going, find the underlying problem, and come up with an elegant solution that works on every level.

    [48:15] Churchill by Paul Johnson (Founders #225)

    [48:25] I would trade all my technology for an afternoon with Socrates.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast

    #244 Harry Snyder (In-N-Out Burger)

    #244 Harry Snyder (In-N-Out Burger)

    What I learned from reading In-N-Out Burger: A Behind-the-Counter Look at the Fast-Food Chain That Breaks All the Rules by Stacy Perman.

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    [2:03] This is an absorbing case study on how a family business came to be at the center of its own cheerful cult.

    [2:42] Aliens, Jedi, & Cults: A Mental Model for Potential

    [5:05] Stripe gave me a mental model for potential. An alien founder assembles a group of Jedi to start a cult and go on a mission together.

    [5:28] The developers raving about Stripe formed the cult.

    [6:37] If you are searching for a project with potential, watch out for the alien founder, Jedi team, and cult following of people on a messianic mission.

    [7:58] A few years ago I started notice that people were getting Tesla tattoos. It is very hard to ever short something where people are tattooing the brand on their body.   — Josh Wolfe

    [8:38] Becoming Trader Joe: How I Did Business My Way and Still Beat the Big Guys  (Founders #188) Word of mouth is the most effective advertising of all. I have been known to say that there's no better business to run than a cult. Trader Joe's became a cult of the overeducated and underpaid, partly because we deliberately tried to make it a cult once we got a handle on what we were actually doing, and partly because we kept the implicit promises with our clientele.

    [9:12] List of David Ogilvy podcasts:

    Ogilvy on Advertising (Founders #82)

    Confessions of an Advertising Man (Founders #89)

    The King of Madison Avenue: David Ogilvy and the Making of Modern Advertising(Founders #169)

    The Unpublished David Ogilvy (Founders #189)

    [9:17] Word of mouth is the most effective advertising of all. In and Out has that, Tesla has that, Stripe has that, Bitcoin has that, Trader Joe's has that, Apple has that.

    [10:35] Conspiracy: Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and the Anatomy of Intrigue and Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future (Founders #31) The best startups might be considered slightly less extreme kinds of cults. The biggest difference is that cults tend to be fanatically wrong about something important. People at a successful startup are fanatically right about something those outside it have missed.

    [11:33] In and Out was fanatically right about something that companies like McDonald’s, Wendy's and others, missed.

    [11:43] The most important sentence in the book: "Keep it real simple. Do one thing and do it the best you can.”

    [12:55] The family owned, fiercely independent chain has remained virtually unchanged since its inception in 1948.

    [14:53] It is known as the anti-chain with the cult-like mystique. The anti-chain is a perfect way to describe In and Out’s approach to building their business.

    [19:48] Harry's drive and tenacity were propelled by the uncertainty of watching his parents labor to provide for his family. Harry grew into a disciplined fellow with a strong sense of responsibility.

    [27:50] The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon (Founders #179)

    [28:15] Sol Price: Retail Revolutionary & Social Innovator (Founders #107)

    [28:55] I have always said that competition just makes you stronger. You shouldn't be afraid of the competition. They make you stay on top of your game. They keep you on your toes.

    [29:23] You don't ever cut corners when it comes to the quality of your product.

    [30:23] There is no cult-like following for shitty products.

    [33:21] This dude is obsessed with simplicity.

    [33:44] Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success Never underestimate the degree to which people crave clarity and respond positively to it.

    [36:26]  If he was alive today and you could ask him for advice I think he would just say do it yourself.

    [37:18] This is an important distinction —and I think also how you get to a cult-like following—he's not interesting in being the biggest, he's interested in being the best.

    [38:34] If you’re efficient, you’re doing it the wrong way. The right way is the hard way. The show was successful because I micromanaged it—every word, every line, every take, every edit, every casting. That’s my way of life.

    [39:47] He refused to sacrifice quality for the sake of profits.

    [40:05] From the start, In-N-Out ran a customer-driven shop.

    [41:00] Authentic: A Memoir by the Founder of Vans (Founders #216)

    [44:07] He believed in paying for quality and that included wages.

    [44:31] Why would you skimp on the level of quality people you work with? That's insane to me — it just makes no sense at all.

    [44:48] Les Schwab Pride In Performance: Keep It Going!

    [45:42]  Embrace hard work, ignore fads, identify what's important to you, and repeat it for decades.

    [46:39] The Sugar King of Havana: The Rise and Fall of Julio Lobo, Cuba's Last Tycoon(Founders #237)

    [50:00] Catering to the car-reliant customer, Harry focused on putting his drive-throughs right next to off-ramps of the fast-expanding freeway system. The growing Southern California freeway network became a significant factor in In-N-Out's own rising popularity.

    [50:45] He's got a handful of really simple principles he refuses to deviate from. He focuses on quality and does that for decade after decade, He's giving us somewhat of a blueprint to build a cult-like following. People respond to this because you've put their interest ahead of your own.

    [51:56] Nuts!: Southwest Airlines' Crazy Recipe for Business and Personal Success(Founders #56)

    [56:50] You don't build a cult following by trying to wring more money out of cheaper products.

    [58:19] I'm focused on the customer. I'm focused on quality. My competitors are focused on a spreadsheet.

    [59:56] Limit the number of details to perfect and make every detail perfect. That is exactly what Harry Snyder did.

    [1:00:41] From his perspective, In-N-Out was simply a different creature than its competitors.

    [1:01:07] He was very much about problem solving before it became a problem.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers.” — Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast