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    • The importance of personal taste and aesthetics as a means of self-expression in a homogenized digital worldIn a world where algorithms dominate, personal taste and aesthetics become crucial for individuals to stand out and connect deeply with others, making them a fundamental aspect of human experience.

      The shift from a curated Internet to one dominated by algorithms has made it harder for individuals to stand out and for people to connect on a deeper level. This trend towards homogenization has led Ezra Klein and others to place greater value on personal taste and aesthetics as a means of self-expression and resistance against the digital reality. Kyle Chayka, author of "Filter" and a staff writer at The New Yorker, expands on this idea in his book, discussing how algorithms have flattened culture and the importance of understanding taste as a fundamental human experience. As Chayka notes, taste is not just about what we consume, but rather about incorporating those things into our identities and making them a part of ourselves.

    • Discovering Personal Taste in MusicEmbrace individual reactions to art, trust feelings even if they don't align with societal norms.

      Our personal taste is a unique and subjective experience that can't be easily defined or compared to others. The speaker shares how they struggled to understand their own taste in classical music and how they finally discovered modern post-classical music that resonated with them deeply. They emphasize that this discovery wasn't about the superiority of one type of music over another but rather about the internal reaction it created. The speaker also highlights how societal pressure to conform to certain tastes can hinder us from experiencing art in a profound way. Montesquieu's quote about natural taste being a quick and exquisite application of rules which we do not even know emphasizes the ineffable and surprising nature of taste. Ultimately, the speaker encourages embracing our individual reactions to art and trusting our feelings, even if they don't align with societal norms or expectations.

    • Cultivating a unique sense of tasteIn a world of abundant information and culture, being aware of what resonates with us personally and cultivating a unique sense of taste is valuable. It allows us to carve out our own identity and navigate the overwhelming options.

      In a world where access to information and culture is abundant, having a distinct sense of taste and discernment becomes increasingly valuable. The speaker emphasizes the importance of listening to oneself and being aware of what resonates with us on a personal level, rather than trying to conform to external standards. They argue that as AI and technology continue to advance, the ability to carve out individuality and make independent judgments becomes more important. The generic human, who conforms to the desires of everyone else, is seen as a dystopian ideal. Instead, cultivating a unique sense of taste allows us to carve out our own identity and navigate the overwhelming amount of options available to us. The speaker also expresses a personal fascination with the idea of the generic coffee shop as an aesthetic puzzle, highlighting the importance of seeking out the unique and meaningful in an increasingly homogenized world.

    • Digital experiences influencing physical preferencesDigital networks shape our preferences, leading to the spread of similar experiences in physical world, both in travel and local businesses, potentially limiting personal growth and discovery.

      Our digital experiences are shaping our preferences and leading us to seek out similar experiences in the physical world, creating a sense of authentic connection to the digital network rather than the local geography. This is evident in the proliferation of minimalist coffee shops around the world, which may appear locally authentic but are in fact shaped by digital platforms and the preferences of users. While this can make travel more familiar and convenient, it also limits our exposure to new and diverse experiences, potentially hindering personal growth and discovery.

    • The Desire for Familiarity and Comfort in Digital ExperiencesAlgorithms curating digital experiences prioritize mass appeal over individual tastes, potentially limiting disruption and innovation.

      Our digital experiences, such as music recommendations on Spotify, are increasingly herding us towards familiar and comforting content, creating a homogeneous culture. This is a modern manifestation of the age-old desire for sameness and comfort. However, the use of algorithms to curate our experiences has led to a shift away from individual human curators and their unique tastes, towards a data-driven system that prioritizes mass appeal over particularistic appeal. This can result in a lack of disruption and innovation, as content that doesn't conform to popular trends risks being overlooked. It's important to consider the implications of this trend and the potential impact on our cultural landscape.

    • Tension between algorithmically promoted average and historically prized unpopular artAlgorithms prioritize engagement over cultural significance, leading to a tension between the most popular and the most enduring art

      While the internet and algorithms have made it easier to find niche content and ideologies, they also funnel users towards a wider, more average cultural consumption. The algorithms prioritize engagement, whether through strong reactions or mass passive engagement, leading to the promotion of culturally optimized content that appeals to the largest audience. However, historically, the most prized art is often not determined by popularity or engagement metrics but by slow word-of-mouth and the ability to grow in popularity over time. The speaker notes that this tension between the algorithmically promoted widest possible average and the historically prized unpopular-yet-growing art is an ongoing debate.

    • The Shift to Ambient CultureIn today's world, we consume content as background noise, leading to an overwhelming amount of distraction and the need to toggle between focus and ambience.

      Our culture is becoming more ambient, meaning it can be consumed ignorantly yet interestingly, often functioning as background noise. This shift is due to the abundance of content and the constant availability of technology that allows us to consume it anytime, anywhere. Brian Eno's concept of ambient music, which can be barely heard yet still appreciated, serves as an example. Today, we use music and other forms of content to regulate our moods rather than for the content itself. However, this opt-in reality also brings about an overwhelming amount of distraction and noise, making it essential to be able to toggle between focus and background. Ultimately, the struggle to find meaningful content in the sea of ambient culture may lead to less of it being produced.

    • The importance of intentional engagement with artModern digital ecosystems can hinder deep connections with art by providing constant availability and ease of distraction, while intentional experiences like going to the movies allow for deeper appreciation

      The abundance of content and ease of access provided by modern digital ecosystems and platforms can hinder our ability to develop deep connections with art and culture. The constant availability of new content and the ease of distraction can prevent us from experiencing difficulty, scarcity, and the need for patience, which are essential for truly engaging with and understanding art. The speaker argues that these experiences, such as going to the movies in a theater, provide a form of sensory deprivation that allows us to concentrate on the art and develop a deeper appreciation for it. The concern is that the types of attention and experiences that are possible online are degraded, and we are losing the ability to engage with art in a meaningful and intentional way.

    • The Process of Platforms Degrading User ExperiencePlatforms, initially valuable, prioritize ads and recommendations over user needs, causing frustration and a desire for authentic alternatives.

      Platforms, which initially add value to users, can eventually start extracting value, primarily in the form of attention, leading to a degraded user experience. This process, known as enshitification, has advanced significantly in major platforms like Google and Spotify. While these platforms offer valuable services, they now prioritize advertisements and recommendations that serve their own interests over the user's needs, causing frustration and a sense of being locked in. The desire for authentic, user-controlled alternatives is stronger than ever, but resolving the core contradiction between technology and capitalism remains a challenge. The Internet, which once held the promise of authentic curation and ownership, has instead become a hypercapitalist culture that prioritizes financial gain over user experience and authenticity.

    • The loss of human curation on social mediaThe shift to algorithmic feeds on social media has led to fewer incentives for individuals to create and share unique, complicated, or niche content, resulting in a loss of discovery and connection with diverse voices and perspectives.

      The shift from human-curated content to algorithmically-driven feeds on social media platforms has led to a loss of discovery and connection with unique voices and perspectives. Early bloggers and social media users acted as curators, sharing interesting links and content, but this practice has largely been replaced by algorithms that prioritize popular content. This loss of the "pull internet," where users actively seek out content, has resulted in fewer incentives for individuals to create and share unique, complicated, or niche content. Instead, the focus has shifted to algorithmic feeds that push content at users, often resulting in a flood of similar content and a loss of the ability to discover new, diverse voices. While there are still some human-curated newsletters and other forms of content that offer a curatorial function, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find and connect with the unique voices and perspectives that the internet once promised.

    • Exploring the depth of connections in curationCuration is about more than just selecting things; it's about understanding the interconnected web of influences and inspirations to gain new appreciation for art and culture.

      Curation is more than just selecting things; it's about responsibility, trust, and developing a deeper understanding of the connections between objects, ideas, or art. This historical practice, which originated from ancient Rome and evolved into religious and civic roles, has been reduced to a mere selection process in today's digital world. However, curation's true value lies in the labor-intensive process of presenting things in their proper context, fostering a holistic education and insight. By going beyond the surface level and exploring the interconnected web of influences and inspirations, we can gain a new appreciation for our tastes and the cultural significance of the things we consume. The example of discovering the connections between an anime, a novel, and an electronic music producer illustrates this concept, highlighting the importance of human-to-human connections in the creation of great art.

    • Discovering the origins and influences behind art we enjoy deepens our appreciationExploring the history and influences of art broadens our perspective and deepens our appreciation, while remembering every authentic encounter is valuable.

      Our personal tastes and appreciation for art can be deepened when we discover the influences and origins behind the work we enjoy. For instance, the speaker's newfound love for Fred Again's music was enhanced when they learned of its connection to minimalist composers like Steve Reich. This continuity and recontextualization of past influences into new forms can lead to a satisfying sense of discovery and understanding. As cultural consumers, we now have the privilege and ability to explore and become connoisseurs of various art forms, which was once a luxury only available to the aristocracy. However, the abundance of culture available to us can also bring anxiety and a sense of obligation to consume only the best or most effective works. It's essential to remember that every authentic encounter with art is valuable, regardless of its perceived quality or influence. Three book recommendations to help broaden your perspective on aesthetics and consumption are: 1. "In Praise of Shadows" by Junichiro Tanizaki - A Japanese novelist's musings on his own taste and design choices. 2. "The Art of the Public Realm" by Kevin Lynch - An exploration of the relationship between art, architecture, and urban design. 3. "The Shock of the New" by Robert Hughes - A comprehensive history of modern art and its impact on society.

    • Exploring Alternative Perspectives on Modernity and CultureThese essays challenge our assumptions about modernity and culture, encouraging us to value shadows, decay, and human connections in new ways.

      These books offer unique perspectives on the value of different experiences and the impact of industrialization and modernity on various cultures. The first essay by Haruki Murakami questions what the world would look like if Japanese people had invented modernity instead of the West, encouraging us to consider alternative ways of valuing shadows, dimness, and decaying textures. The second book, "Seeing is Forgetting the Name of the Thing One Sees," by Lawrence Wechsler, explores the artistic practice of Robert Irwin, who creates minimalist light and space installations, inviting us to appreciate the atmospheric and environmental aspects of art. Lastly, "The Mushroom at the End of the World" by Anna Lowenhaupt Singh reveals the intricate human connections and meanings created around the scarcity of matsutake mushrooms, emphasizing the importance of scarcity and human-to-human relationships in our consumption of various things, whether they are art or actual commodities.

    Recent Episodes from The Ezra Klein Show

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

    Donald Trump has made inflation a central part of his campaign message. At his rallies, he rails against “the Biden inflation tax” and “crooked Joe’s inflation nightmare,” and promises that in a second Trump term, “inflation will be in full retreat.”

    But if you look at Trump’s actual policies, that wouldn’t be the case at all. Trump has a bold, ambitious agenda to make prices much, much higher. He’s proposing a 10 percent tariff on imported goods, and a 60 percent tariff on products from China. He wants to deport huge numbers of immigrants. And he’s made it clear that he’d like to replace the Federal Reserve chair with someone more willing to take orders from him. It’s almost unimaginable to me that you would run on this agenda at a time when Americans are so mad about high prices. But I don’t think people really know that’s what Trump is vowing to do.

    So to drill into the weeds of Trump’s plans, I decided to call up an old friend. Matt Yglesias is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist and the author of the Slow Boring newsletter, where he’s been writing a lot about Trump’s proposals. We also used to host a policy podcast together, “The Weeds.”

    In this conversation, we discuss what would happen to the economy, especially in terms of inflation, if Trump actually did what he says he wants to do; what we can learn from how Trump managed the economy in his first term; and why more people aren’t sounding the alarm.

    Mentioned:

    Trump’s new economic plan is terrible” by Matthew Yglesias

    Never mind: Wall Street titans shake off qualms and embrace Trump” by Sam Sutton

    How Far Trump Would Go” by Eric Cortellessa

    Book Recommendations:

    Take Back the Game by Linda Flanagan

    1177 B.C. by Eric H. Cline

    The Rise of the G.I. Army, 1940-1941 by Paul Dickson

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero, Adam Posen and Michael Strain.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 21, 2024

    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

    The biggest divide in our politics isn’t between Democrats and Republicans, or even left and right. It’s between people who follow politics closely, and those who pay almost no attention to it. If you’re in the former camp — and if you’re reading this, you probably are — the latter camp can seem inscrutable. These people hardly ever look at political news. They hate discussing politics. But they do care about issues and candidates, and they often vote.

    As the 2024 election takes shape, this bloc appears crucial to determining who wins the presidency. An NBC News poll from April found that 15 percent of voters don’t follow political news, and Donald Trump was winning them by 26 points.

    Yanna Krupnikov studies exactly this kind of voter. She’s a professor of communication and media at the University of Michigan and an author, with John Barry Ryan, of “The Other Divide: Polarization and Disengagement in American Politics.” The book examines how the chasm between the deeply involved and the less involved shapes politics in America. I’ve found it to be a helpful guide for understanding one of the most crucial dynamics emerging in this year’s election: the swing to Trump from President Biden among disengaged voters.

    In this conversation, we discuss how politically disengaged voters relate to politics; where they get their information about politics and how they form opinions; and whether major news events, like Trump’s recent conviction, might sway them.

    Mentioned:

    The ‘Need for Chaos’ and Motivations to Share Hostile Political Rumors” by Michael Bang Petersen, Mathias Osmundsen and Kevin Arceneaux

    Hooked by Markus Prior

    The Political Influence of Lifestyle Influencers? Examining the Relationship Between Aspirational Social Media Use and Anti-Expert Attitudes and Beliefs” by Ariel Hasell and Sedona Chinn

    One explanation for the 2024 election’s biggest mystery” by Eric Levitz

    Book Recommendations:

    What Goes Without Saying by Taylor N. Carlson and Jaime E. Settle

    Through the Grapevine by Taylor N. Carlson

    Sorry I’m Late, I Didn’t Want to Come by Jessica Pan

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 18, 2024

    The View From the Israeli Right

    The View From the Israeli Right

    On Tuesday I got back from an eight-day trip to Israel and the West Bank. I happened to be there on the day that Benny Gantz resigned from the war cabinet and called on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to schedule new elections, breaking the unity government that Israel had had since shortly after Oct. 7.

    There is no viable left wing in Israel right now. There is a coalition that Netanyahu leads stretching from right to far right and a coalition that Gantz leads stretching from center to right. In the early months of the war, Gantz appeared ascendant as support for Netanyahu cratered. But now Netanyahu’s poll numbers are ticking back up.

    So one thing I did in Israel was deepen my reporting on Israel’s right. And there, Amit Segal’s name kept coming up. He’s one of Israel’s most influential political analysts and the author of “The Story of Israeli Politics” is coming out in English.

    Segal and I talked about the political differences between Gantz and Netanyahu, the theory of security that’s emerging on the Israeli right, what happened to the Israeli left, the threat from Iran and Hezbollah and how Netanyahu is trying to use President Biden’s criticism to his political advantage.

    Mentioned:

    Biden May Spur Another Netanyahu Comeback” by Amit Segal

    Book Recommendations:

    The Years of Lyndon Johnson Series by Robert A. Caro

    The World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig

    The Object of Zionism by Zvi Efrat

    The News from Waterloo by Brian Cathcart

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 14, 2024

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    There’s something weird happening with the economy. On a personal level, most Americans say they’re doing pretty well right now. And according to the data, that’s true. Wages have gone up faster than inflation. Unemployment is low, the stock market is generally up so far this year, and people are buying more stuff.

    And yet in surveys, people keep saying the economy is bad. A recent Harris poll for The Guardian found that around half of Americans think the S. & P. 500 is down this year, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high. Fifty-six percent think we’re in a recession.

    There are many theories about why this gap exists. Maybe political polarization is warping how people see the economy or it’s a failure of President Biden’s messaging, or there’s just something uniquely painful about inflation. And while there’s truth in all of these, it felt like a piece of the story was missing.

    And for me, that missing piece was an article I read right before the pandemic. An Atlantic story from February 2020 called “The Great Affordability Crisis Breaking America.” It described how some of Americans’ biggest-ticket expenses — housing, health care, higher education and child care — which were already pricey, had been getting steadily pricier for decades.

    At the time, prices weren’t the big topic in the economy; the focus was more on jobs and wages. So it was easier for this trend to slip notice, like a frog boiling in water, quietly, putting more and more strain on American budgets. But today, after years of high inflation, prices are the biggest topic in the economy. And I think that explains the anger people feel: They’re noticing the price of things all the time, and getting hammered with the reality of how expensive these things have become.

    The author of that Atlantic piece is Annie Lowrey. She’s an economics reporter, the author of Give People Money, and also my wife. In this conversation, we discuss how the affordability crisis has collided with our post-pandemic inflationary world, the forces that shape our economic perceptions, why people keep spending as if prices aren’t a strain and what this might mean for the presidential election.

    Mentioned:

    It Will Never Be a Good Time to Buy a House” by Annie Lowrey

    Book Recommendations:

    Franchise by Marcia Chatelain

    A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel

    Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 07, 2024

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    After Donald Trump was convicted last week in his hush-money trial, Republican leaders wasted no time in rallying behind him. There was no chance the Republican Party was going to replace Trump as their nominee at this point. Trump has essentially taken over the G.O.P.; his daughter-in-law is even co-chair of the Republican National Committee.

    How did the Republican Party get so weak that it could fall victim to a hostile takeover?

    Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld are the authors of “The Hollow Parties: The Many Pasts and Disordered Present of American Party Politics,” which traces how both major political parties have been “hollowed out” over the decades, transforming once-powerful gatekeeping institutions into mere vessels for the ideologies of specific candidates. And they argue that this change has been perilous for our democracy.

    In this conversation, we discuss how the power of the parties has been gradually chipped away; why the Republican Party became less ideological and more geared around conflict; the merits of a stronger party system; and more.

    Mentioned:

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” by The Ezra Klein Show with Elaine Kamarck

    Book Recommendations:

    The Two Faces of American Freedom by Aziz Rana

    Rainbow’s End by Steven P. Erie

    An American Melodrama by Lewis Chester, Godfrey Hodgson, Bruce Page

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show’‘ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker, Kate Sinclair and Rollin Hu. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 04, 2024

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    The steady dings of notifications. The 40 tabs that greet you when you open your computer in the morning. The hundreds of unread emails, most of them spam, with subject lines pleading or screaming for you to click. Our attention is under assault these days, and most of us are familiar with the feeling that gives us — fractured, irritated, overwhelmed.

    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

    In this conversation, we talk about how the 20th-century study of attention laid the groundwork for today’s attention economy, the connection between changing ideas of attention and changing ideas of the self, how we even define attention (this episode is worth listening to for Burnett’s collection of beautiful metaphors alone), whether the concern over our shrinking attention spans is simply a moral panic, what it means to teach attention and more.

    Mentioned:

    Friends of Attention

    The Battle for Attention” by Nathan Heller

    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

    Book Recommendations:

    Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll

    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

    The Confidence-Man by Herman Melville

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 31, 2024

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    A.I.-generated art has flooded the internet, and a lot of it is derivative, even boring or offensive. But what could it look like for artists to collaborate with A.I. systems in making art that is actually generative, challenging, transcendent?

    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

    Mentioned:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    “The Jetsons” premiered in 1962. And based on the internal math of the show, George Jetson, the dad, was born in 2022. He’d be a toddler right now. And we are so far away from the world that show imagined. There were a lot of future-trippers in the 1960s, and most of them would be pretty disappointed by how that future turned out.

    So what happened? Why didn’t we build that future?

    The answer, I think, lies in the 1970s. I’ve been spending a lot of time studying that decade in my work, trying to understand why America is so bad at building today. And James Pethokoukis has also spent a lot of time looking at the 1970s, in his work trying to understand why America is less innovative today than it was in the postwar decades. So Pethokoukis and I are asking similar questions, and circling the same time period, but from very different ideological vantages.

    Pethokoukis is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and author of the book “The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised.” He also writes a newsletter called Faster, Please! “The two screamingly obvious things that we stopped doing is we stopped spending on science, research and development the way we did in the 1960s,” he tells me, “and we began to regulate our economy as if regulation would have no impact on innovation.”

    In this conversation, we debate why the ’70s were such an inflection point; whether this slowdown phenomenon is just something that happens as countries get wealthier; and what the government’s role should be in supporting and regulating emerging technologies like A.I.

    Mentioned:

    U.S. Infrastructure: 1929-2017” by Ray C. Fair

    Book Recommendations

    Why Information Grows by Cesar Hidalgo

    The Expanse series by James S.A. Corey

    The American Dream Is Not Dead by Michael R. Strain

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 21, 2024

    The Disastrous Relationship Between Israel, Palestinians and the U.N.

    The Disastrous Relationship Between Israel, Palestinians and the U.N.

    The international legal system was created to prevent the atrocities of World War II from happening again. The United Nations partitioned historic Palestine to create the states of Israel and Palestine, but also left Palestinians with decades of false promises. The war in Gaza — and countless other conflicts, including those in Syria, Yemen and Ethiopia — shows how little power the U.N. and international law have to protect civilians in wartime. So what is international law actually for?

    Aslı Ü. Bâli is a professor at Yale Law School who specializes in international and comparative law. “The fact that people break the law and sometimes get away with it doesn’t mean the law doesn’t exist and doesn’t have force,” she argues.

    In this conversation, Bâli traces the gap between how international law is written on paper and the realpolitik of how countries decide to follow it, the U.N.’s unique role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from its very beginning, how the laws of war have failed Gazans but may be starting to change the conflict’s course, and more.

    Mentioned:

    With Schools in Ruins, Education in Gaza Will Be Hobbled for Years” by Liam Stack and Bilal Shbair

    Book Recommendations:

    Imperialism, Sovereignty and the Making of International Law by Antony Anghie

    Justice for Some by Noura Erakat

    Worldmaking After Empire by Adom Getachew

    The Constitutional Bind by Aziz Rana

    The United Nations and the Question of Palestine by Ardi Imseis

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Carole Sabouraud.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 17, 2024

    This Is a Very Weird Moment in the History of Drug Laws

    This Is a Very Weird Moment in the History of Drug Laws

    Drug policy feels very unsettled right now. The war on drugs was a failure. But so far, the war on the war on drugs hasn’t entirely been a success, either.

    Take Oregon. In 2020, it became the first state in the nation to decriminalize hard drugs. It was a paradigm shift — treating drug-users as patients rather than criminals — and advocates hoped it would be a model for the nation. But then there was a surge in overdoses and public backlash over open-air drug use. And last month, Oregon’s governor signed a law restoring criminal penalties for drug possession, ending that short-lived experiment.

    Other states and cities have also tipped toward backlash. And there are a lot of concerns about how cannabis legalization and commercialization is working out around the country. So what did the supporters of these measures fail to foresee? And where do we go from here?

    Keith Humphreys is a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University who specializes in addiction and its treatment. He also served as a senior policy adviser in the Obama administration. I asked him to walk me through why Oregon’s policy didn’t work out; what policymakers sometimes misunderstand about addiction; the gap between “elite” drug cultures and how drugs are actually consumed by most people; and what better drug policies might look like.

    Mentioned:

    Oregon Health Authority data

    Book Recommendations:

    Drugs and Drug Policy by Mark A.R. Kleiman, Jonathan P. Caulkins and Angela Hawken

    Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke

    Confessions of an English Opium Eater by Thomas De Quincey

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

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    Sew Much More: Sewing room opens for Cortes community

    Sew Much More: Sewing room opens for Cortes community
    Kim Paulley/CKTZ News - This fall, Mansons Hall opened its doors to Sew Much More, a place to sew and learn, according to organizers. The idea for Sew Much More had its beginnings at the Cortes Island Free Store, where Marnie Andrews offered up her sewing skills this past summer. The fair weather allowed her to set up in the area just outside the front doors. It was there that she repaired items for the store that were just too good to throw away. She also taught interested patrons DIY sewing skills. The success of those activities set the stage for the Southern Cortes Community Association (SCCA) board to approve the use of the sewing room at the Mansons Community Hall. Sew Much More is run by a team of volunteers, including Andrews and SCCA Board Chair Cora Moret. Volunteers are on hand to guide sewers as much or as little as needed. It is an all ages offering with the proviso that children nine and under will generally need an adult to attend with them. Participants are encouraged to bring their sewing projects, mending and repairs. Unwanted, revamped items are donated to the Mansons Hall thrift store. “Why throw it away, if you don’t have to! The jump in skill needed to get that repair done is not huge,” Moret says. Sew Much More runs on Tuesday afternoons from 2-5 pm at Mansons Hall. There is no cost to participants.

    The Great Escape with Arabelle Mondello of Hope On The Run

    The Great Escape with Arabelle Mondello of Hope On The Run
    Arabelle Mondello is a kind, funny, beautiful human soul and also a little nuts. She is an ultra marathon runner and preparing to take one of the most epic trails on the globe, The American Discovery Trail, which stretches across more than 6800 miles and 15 states. Why commit to such an incredible challenge? After suffering multiple miscarriages, she became an emotional mess, and dove deep into grief and ensuing depression, losing much of her self worth. She went on a search for hope and happiness beyond having another baby. On the trails, she found peace, a great escape from her suffering. She found that hope out on the trails, in the wilderness. She prepares to run across the United States to share her message of hope with others and offer guidance to those who have suffered not only pregnancy loss but those who might find themselves in a dark place. To help us recognize that we have the right tools to determine what is truly meaningful, what can brings joy to our lives, and the steps we could take to allow us to find a better place.

    #05 _ Louise des Places

    #05 _ Louise des Places

    Bonjour, bonsoir à toustes, bienvenue dans le cinquième épisode de Concrètement Flou. 


    Dans ce nouvel épisode, je suis allé à la rencontre de Louise des Places. 

    Louise est journaliste d’art. Tel un couteau suisse, elle a travaillé comme assistante d’artiste, assistante curateur, assistante de galerie. Elle a beaucoup de cordes à son arc, et depuis moins d’un an, elle s’est lancé dans la curation d’exposition ! 

    Ensemble on a discuté de son parcours, de ses expériences dans le monde de l’art, comment est-ce qu’on monte une exposition, de sa vie entre Paris et Berlin !

    J’espère que cet épisode vous plaira, n’hésitez pas à vous abonnez, à partager, m’envoyer un message, ça fait toujours plaisir !  


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