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    This Isn’t Your Grandpa’s Joe Biden

    enSeptember 03, 2021

    Podcast Summary

    • Biden's economic vision: High care, low carbon initiativesThe Biden administration's economic plan focuses on shaping markets to promote better social outcomes through high care, low carbon initiatives, including significant public spending on child care, pre-K, the child tax credit, and Medicaid expansion.

      The Biden administration's economic vision goes beyond traditional Democratic approaches of taxing and spending. Instead, it aims to remake the economy with a focus on high care, low carbon initiatives. This involves shaping and structuring markets to promote better social outcomes, rather than just stepping in when markets fail. Appointments like Lena Khan to the Federal Trade Commission reflect this new approach, which could be described as a left-leaning form of neoliberalism. However, this approach is distinguished by the significant public spending on initiatives like child care, pre-K, the child tax credit, and Medicaid expansion. These efforts are aimed at transforming markets and industries, such as home-based health care, to produce better social outcomes.

    • A shift towards interventionist economics with a focus on purpose and missionThe economic landscape is changing to address market power's impact on democracy, national security, and workers, focusing on antitrust as a tool to address corporate power without legislation.

      The current economic landscape is shifting towards a more interventionist approach, focusing on purpose economics and mission economics. This new perspective sees spending as a necessary driver for economic growth and considers the consequences of corporate power beyond consumer prices. A revealing example of this change is the renewed focus on antitrust, with key figures like Lina Khan, Tim Wu, and Jonathan Kantor taking top positions in the Biden administration. This shift in thinking around antitrust stems from recognizing market power as a significant problem that can impact democracy, national security, and workers, in addition to economics. The appeal of this approach lies in its potential to address corporate power without requiring legislation, making it an important tool in the current political climate. The tech industry, with companies like Amazon and Facebook, provides an illustrative case of this new perspective, as these firms hold significant power beyond traditional monopolies.

    • Competition policy under Biden: Economics vs PowerThe Biden administration's competition policy is multifaceted, focusing on both making markets work better and preventing dominance and political influence. Younger thinkers advocate for a more aggressive stance, potentially leading to increased regulation and reclassification of tech companies as public utilities.

      Competition policy under the Biden administration is not a one-size-fits-all approach. It's a multifaceted issue that can be viewed through the lenses of economics and power. Some competition policies focus on making markets work better, while others prioritize preventing dominance and addressing political influence. The latter perspective, as advocated by critics like Barry Lynn, is more concerned with a company's power to discriminate and manipulate markets and politics. The Biden administration's actual goals in competition policy are not clear-cut, as they could be focused on marketplaces becoming more competitive or improving democracy. Regardless, younger thinkers are pushing for a more aggressive stance on dominance and power, which could lead to increased regulation and the reclassification of certain tech companies as public utilities. This complex issue requires careful consideration and a nuanced understanding of its various dimensions.

    • Balancing economic analysis and democratic values in competition policyEffective competition policy requires a balance between economic analysis and democratic values to prevent ambiguous standards and potential government abuse while ensuring public purpose and democratic accountability.

      Effective competition policy requires a balance between economic analysis and democratic values. Focusing solely on market power and bigness can lead to ambiguous standards and potential government abuse. However, ignoring the importance of public purpose and democratic accountability in antitrust enforcement can also result in policies that diverge from the values and demands of the public. For instance, while Amazon's dominance is a valid concern, its popularity and convenience make it a challenging issue for antitrust regulators. To navigate this complex landscape, it is essential to trust in the democratic process and ensure that diverse voices are heard, and that antitrust policies are guided by clear values and a commitment to fair competition.

    • Navigating the Challenges of Progressive PoliticsProgressives face complexities in transforming institutions, narrow Congressional margins, and opposition from Republicans, requiring diligent effort to build support for their ideas.

      The current political climate is tenuous for progressives due to the newness of their ideas and the lack of time to fully establish them. The institutions that need to support these ideas are still in the process of being transformed, making it a challenge to navigate politics and policy all at once. The razor-thin margins in Congress and opposition from Republicans further complicate matters. The Biden administration's agenda, including the infrastructure bill and reconciliation bill, is on the edge of success or failure due to these complexities. Progressives need to acknowledge the challenges and work diligently to build the necessary institutions and secure political support for their ideas.

    • Navigating the complex connection between policies and political power during a crisisEffective policies bring relief, but civic infrastructure and pandemic exhaustion make it hard for people to engage politically. Strong economy from policies can benefit many, despite unclear political feedback loops.

      The connection between effective policies and political power is more complex than some might think, especially during a global crisis like the ongoing pandemic. While policies like the child tax credit may bring immediate relief and support, the exhaustion and overload caused by the pandemic and the lack of strong civic infrastructure can make it difficult for people to fully recognize and engage politically around these benefits. However, there is a silver lining. The Biden administration's actions, such as wage increases for low-income workers, have led to a strong economy, which is benefiting many people, even if the political feedback loops are not as clear-cut as some might have hoped. Ultimately, the challenge for policymakers is to navigate this complex landscape and find ways to effectively communicate the benefits of their policies to the public, while also addressing the underlying issues that make it harder for people to engage politically.

    • Understanding Inflation's Impact Beyond Average PricesEconomists anticipate price hikes in specific sectors, and while low-income workers may feel the pinch, employment growth can result from inflation. A nuanced approach to inflation policy is needed, focusing on targeted interventions to address bottlenecks.

      The current inflation discussion should not be viewed solely through the lens of average price increases, but rather through the specific sectors or segments of the economy experiencing significant price hikes. Many economists, including some progressives, anticipated price increases in certain areas, particularly cars, airline tickets, and energy. While low-income workers may feel the pinch in these sectors, they are doing relatively better if they don't require expensive purchases. However, it's important to remember that inflation, while hurting shareholders, can also lead to employment growth. The current political psychology surrounding inflation is driven by the fear of inflation itself. A more nuanced approach to inflation policy is needed, focusing on targeted interventions to address specific bottlenecks rather than slowing down the entire economy. Additionally, long-term efforts to ease housing prices are crucial to mitigate dangerous inflation for the average person.

    • Focusing on clearing sector bottlenecks to address inflationPolicymakers should address inflation by tackling specific sector issues to prevent inflation expectations, maintaining focus on labor market and full employment, and considering both sector-specific causes and psychological factors.

      Addressing inflation requires a nuanced approach that considers both specific sector issues and psychological factors. Instead of debating whether to slow down the economy as a whole, policymakers should focus on clearing bottlenecks product category by product category. The distinction between fighting inflation and inflation expectations is crucial, as addressing sector-specific issues can prevent the development of inflation expectations. The upcoming personnel decision regarding Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell's reappointment is an essential consideration for maintaining the Fed's focus on the labor market and full employment. Powell, who has kept the Fed's focus on this area, should be reappointed, and future chairs should institutionalize these expectations. The current debate among economists regarding the causes of inflation highlights the importance of considering both sector-specific issues and psychological factors in crafting effective policy solutions.

    • Fed's Regulatory Power to Mitigate Climate ChangeThe next Fed chair can promote economic stability and climate action by requiring disinvestment, stress testing, and higher capital requirements for banks with climate risks.

      The Federal Reserve has the power to mitigate climate change through its regulatory authority over banks and financial entities. This includes requiring disinvestment in fossil fuels, running climate stress tests, and imposing higher capital requirements for banks with significant exposure to climate-related risks. Climate change poses a legitimate economic risk to the Fed's mandate for full employment and economic stability. The next Fed chair has an opportunity to promote both economic stability and climate action. Additionally, there is a need to connect economic policies with racial justice and democracy to build a broader coalition of support. Some suggested candidates for climate-focused central bankers include Sarah Bloom Raskin and Lisa Cook. Despite the successes in economic and racial policy, there is a need to address the connection between the two and make a full-throated case for their alignment. While some Democrats in centrist districts argue that racialized policies may be less popular, others argue that framing policies as beneficial for all can still achieve the desired outcomes.

    • Understanding the interconnectedness of racial justice and economic policiesExploring the impact of neoliberalism on democracy and the historical connection between racism and economic policies can help create meaningful political coalitions and improve public welfare.

      Recognizing the interconnectedness of racial justice and economic policies is crucial for creating meaningful political coalitions and improving overall public welfare. While some policies may require explicit discussions of race in electoral politics, others can focus on policy design and jurisprudence. One example is the USDA's attempt to help black farmers discriminated against in the past, which requires a new jurisprudence to pass through the courts. To better understand these concepts, I recommend reading "Undoing the Demos" by Wendy Brown, which explores the impact of neoliberalism on democracy, and "The End of the Myth" by Greg Grandin, which reveals the historical connection between the American frontier myth and racist subjugation. These books provide valuable insights into the intersection of race, economics, and democracy, and offer creative ways to address these issues.

    • Understanding the influence of national myths on politicsNational myths shape our self-perception and political possibilities. Books like 'Democracy's Discontent' and 'Democracy Without Domination' propose new ways to think about democracy and justice, emphasizing the importance of preventing domination and focusing on nondomination.

      Importance of understanding the role of national myths in shaping our politics. Felicia Wong emphasized the significance of Michael Sandel's book "Democracy's Discontent," which explores how our national myths influence how we think about ourselves and what's possible in politics. Another recommended read is "Democracy Without Domination" by Danielle Allen and Rohini Somanathan. This book argues for a new way of thinking about democracy and justice, focusing on the concept of nondomination instead of the liberal difference principle. A practical implication of this perspective is the need to move beyond statistical representation in politics and instead ensure that rules and institutions prevent one group from dominating another. Overall, these books offer valuable insights into reimagining democracy and justice for a more equitable society.

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    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

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    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

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    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

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    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

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    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

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    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

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    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

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    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    “The Jetsons” premiered in 1962. And based on the internal math of the show, George Jetson, the dad, was born in 2022. He’d be a toddler right now. And we are so far away from the world that show imagined. There were a lot of future-trippers in the 1960s, and most of them would be pretty disappointed by how that future turned out.

    So what happened? Why didn’t we build that future?

    The answer, I think, lies in the 1970s. I’ve been spending a lot of time studying that decade in my work, trying to understand why America is so bad at building today. And James Pethokoukis has also spent a lot of time looking at the 1970s, in his work trying to understand why America is less innovative today than it was in the postwar decades. So Pethokoukis and I are asking similar questions, and circling the same time period, but from very different ideological vantages.

    Pethokoukis is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and author of the book “The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised.” He also writes a newsletter called Faster, Please! “The two screamingly obvious things that we stopped doing is we stopped spending on science, research and development the way we did in the 1960s,” he tells me, “and we began to regulate our economy as if regulation would have no impact on innovation.”

    In this conversation, we debate why the ’70s were such an inflection point; whether this slowdown phenomenon is just something that happens as countries get wealthier; and what the government’s role should be in supporting and regulating emerging technologies like A.I.

    Mentioned:

    U.S. Infrastructure: 1929-2017” by Ray C. Fair

    Book Recommendations

    Why Information Grows by Cesar Hidalgo

    The Expanse series by James S.A. Corey

    The American Dream Is Not Dead by Michael R. Strain

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 21, 2024

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