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    What We Learned Reading Ron DeSantis's Books

    enJune 13, 2023

    Podcast Summary

    • DeSantis' book targets perceived enemiesDeSantis' book positions him as a conservative figure who isn't afraid to confront media, tech, administrative state, and wokeness, setting the stage for his presidential campaign narrative.

      Ron DeSantis' book, "The Courage to Be Free," positions him as a conservative figure who is unafraid to take on perceived enemies, including the news media, big tech, the administrative state, and wokeness. DeSantis' courage, according to the book, lies in his willingness to confront these adversaries. The book serves as an enemies list for DeSantis, with frequent attacks against these entities. DeSantis' courage is a recurring theme throughout the book, and it sets the stage for his presidential campaign narrative. The book provides insight into DeSantis' perspective and the issues he intends to prioritize in his campaign.

    • Ruling class vs. the massesDeSantis argues against elites talking down to the masses, positioning himself as an underdog fighting for the founding fathers' vision.

      Ron DeSantis' book "The Courage to Be Free" positions him as an underdog standing against a ruling class, as per the populist playbook. This ruling class, according to DeSantis and an essay by Angelo Codevilla, is defined not by wealth or power but by a certain attitude. DeSantis argues that cultural and political elites often talk down to the masses, and his political journey is centered around fighting this perceived betrayal of the founding fathers' vision. However, it's important to note that while this dynamic may be real, DeSantis' message focuses solely on this issue, potentially crossing a line into an extreme and all-consuming resentment of the elite.

    • DeSantis' writing reflects political evolutionDeSantis' earlier work emphasized constitutional principles, while later work embraced MAGA ideology, raising questions about authenticity and flexibility

      Ron DeSantis' political stance and writing have evolved significantly over the years. His earlier work, "The Courage to Be Free," showcased a deep interest in constitutional principles and the Tea Party movement. However, in his later book, "Dreams from My Founding Fathers," he took a more aggressive approach towards Obama and embraced MAGA ideology. This shift may raise questions about his political authenticity and flexibility in adapting to party trends. Despite his efforts to appear uncompromising and independent, DeSantis' writing and actions suggest a sensitivity to the political climate and a willingness to adapt his message accordingly.

    • DeSantis vs. Trump: Different Approaches to Politics and LeadershipDeSantis positions himself as a precursor to Trump's rise, but distinguishes himself through criticisms of perpetuating oneself in office and loyalty to the cause over personal loyalty.

      Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump have different approaches to politics and leadership, with Trump embracing the showmanship and allegiance aspect of MAGA movement, while DeSantis takes a more serious and literal stance. During his time in Congress, DeSantis positions himself as a precursor to Trump's rise, highlighting his Trumpy or proto-Trumpy positions and actions. However, when looking back on his time in Washington, DeSantis subtly distinguishes himself from Trump through his criticisms of perpetuating oneself in office and loyalty to the cause over personal loyalty. This contrast between Trump's entertainer persona and DeSantis' serious demeanor continues to shape their political dynamics.

    • A Confrontational Approach to Politics in Ron DeSantis's BookRon DeSantis's book, 'The Courage to Be Free,' emphasizes a confrontational approach to politics, rejecting bipartisanship and focusing on base turnout, reflecting the Trumpian playbook.

      Ron DeSantis's book, "The Courage to Be Free," offers a unique perspective in the genre of campaign literature, as DeSantis eschews the traditional bipartisan tone and instead emphasizes a confrontational approach to politics. He believes that the media acts as a tool for party discipline, rewarding those who toe the line and attacking those who stray. DeSantis also highlights his own legislative struggles during his time in Congress, noting that he was unable to pass significant bills despite being on the Judiciary Committee. Instead, he focuses on his successes as Florida's governor. The book's tone, which includes a rejection of bipartisanship and a focus on base turnout, reflects the Trumpian playbook and marks a departure from the political norm.

    • DeSantis's media presence during CongressIn the modern political climate, having a strong media presence can be as important as legislative achievements for career advancement.

      During his time in Congress, DeSantis may not have had significant legislative achievements, but he made up for it by building a strong communication strategy and a reputation on TV and social media. The importance of legislative achievement for political advancement is questioned, especially in the current political climate where being active on media platforms is valued. DeSantis's transition from Congress to the governorship of Florida is highlighted as a turning point in his career, where he presents a bold agenda and positions himself as an energetic and disciplined leader, contrasting older candidates like Biden and Trump who are criticized for their lack of energy and focus.

    • DeSantis's implicit campaign against Biden and TrumpDeSantis positions himself as younger, more energetic candidate by letting others criticize Biden and Trump's age and energy levels. He showcases his effective use of power as governor.

      Ron DeSantis's implicit campaign against Joe Biden and Trump, particularly in regards to their age and energy levels, is a significant aspect of his political stance. DeSantis doesn't need to be overt about it, as others in the media and politics are already having that conversation. Instead, he can let others make the case for him by appearing younger and more energetic than his opponents. However, his mean-spirited attacks, such as his comments about Biden's injury, come across as unnecessary and unclassy. A more substantive argument for DeSantis's candidacy is his demonstrated energy, discipline, and effective use of power as governor. His exhaustive list of constitutional, statutory, and customary powers, as well as his control over the legislature, showcases his ability to advance priorities through the use of all available levers.

    • A comparison of DeSantis and Trump's governing stylesDeSantis' book criticizes Trump's presidency by emphasizing their contrasting approaches to governing, with DeSantis portrayed as disciplined and effective, while Trump is seen as disengaged and narcissistic.

      That DeSantis' book critiques Trump's presidency by highlighting the contrast between their approaches to governing. DeSantis argues that he has the mastery and discipline to effectively navigate the government, while Trump was disengaged and often unable to grasp the basics of governing. The anecdotes about Trump's behavior in the book illustrate this contrast and also suggest that Trump is a narcissist who surrounds himself with loyalists rather than competent advisors. Additionally, DeSantis describes himself as a leader guided by a strong sense of purpose and American values, but his explanations for these beliefs are vague and lack depth. Overall, the book presents DeSantis as a competent and principled leader, in contrast to Trump's chaotic and self-absorbed presidency.

    • Leadership during the pandemic and standing firm against oppositionDeSantis' book showcases his leadership style during the pandemic, challenging mainstream narratives and opposition, resonating with his base, and questioning scientific consensus on energy policy.

      Ron DeSantis' book, "The Courage to Be Free," presents his leadership style during his tenure as Florida's governor, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. DeSantis positioned himself as a champion against the media, public health establishment, and what he perceived as an overbearing "ruling class," often using Anthony Fauci as a proxy for his criticisms of the Trump administration's handling of the pandemic. DeSantis' willingness to challenge mainstream narratives and stand firm against criticism, despite potential political consequences, is a key aspect of his campaign platform. While some argue that his COVID policies may not be a strong selling point in the 2024 presidential race, his stance against perceived opposition, particularly Fauci, resonates with his base. DeSantis' approach to energy policy includes questioning mainstream scientific consensus and seeking alternative expert opinions. Overall, DeSantis' book offers insights into his leadership style and the issues that drive his political ambitions.

    • DeSantis' COVID-19 response in 'The Courage to Be Free'DeSantis positions himself as a COVID-19 leader, resisting establishment pressure for masks and school closures, but lacks substance on economic issues.

      Ron DeSantis' COVID-19 response is a central theme in his book, "The Courage to Be Free," as it represents a crucible for his self-conception as a leader and a critique of Trump's alleged bowing to the ruling class. DeSantis argues that he stood up to the establishment's pressure for mask mandates and school closures, aligning with his populist, anti-elitist message. However, a potential weakness for DeSantis in the book is the lack of substance regarding economic issues, which could be a disadvantage given Trump's strong reputation as a former businessman and the current economic climate.

    • DeSantis' Book and Campaign: COVID, Wokeness, and EducationDeSantis emphasizes his COVID response, opposition to 'wokeness', and achievements in education as key themes in his book and campaign.

      Ron DeSantis' book and potential campaign revolve around three main themes: his handling of COVID-19, his stance against "wokeness," and his record as Florida's governor, particularly in education. DeSantis argues that he successfully managed the economy and kept schools open during the pandemic. He frequently criticizes "wokeness," though he doesn't clearly define the term, and focuses on education as a battleground for his conservative policies and values. The education sector unites his accomplishments in COVID response, his conservative policy achievements, and his fight against perceived cultural issues.

    • Governor DeSantis' education stance and parental rightsDeSantis frames education issues as parental rights, attacking 'woke' policies and corporations like Disney for their stances. He's using state power to enforce his agenda, raising concerns about authoritarianism.

      Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' stance on education, particularly regarding issues of systemic racism and "woke" policies, is a key aspect of his governorship and political appeal. He frames it as a matter of parental rights and fighting against elitist forces trying to indoctrinate children. DeSantis' attacks on corporations like Disney for their stances on social issues and DEI policies have become a defining aspect of his governance and a potential shift from Tea Party ideology. He's using the power of the state to punish corporations that don't align with his views, which some see as a worrying development towards a more authoritarian approach. DeSantis' battle with Disney over education policies is a prime example of where he's willing to use government intervention to enforce his agenda, even if it goes against traditional conservative beliefs about limited government intervention in the private sector.

    • DeSantis' use of government power against opponentsDeSantis' actions against Disney and crime approach seen as divisive, potential overreach, or necessary saving society from ideological agendas

      Governor Ron DeSantis' stance on using government power against his political opponents, as seen in his actions against Disney and his approach to crime, can be perceived as a divisive and potentially concerning use of authority. While he argues that this is necessary to save society from the influence of institutions with ideological agendas, critics may view it as an overreach and an attack on individual freedoms. Additionally, while DeSantis presents his record in Florida as a blueprint for America's revival, some argue that his approach is more about targeting specific enemies rather than offering a cohesive and systematic plan. The effectiveness of this strategy in a Republican primary and beyond remains to be seen.

    • Exceptions to the rule: Insights from former presidents' memoirsFormer presidents Ulysses Grant, Jimmy Carter, and George Bush wrote memoirs that offer unique insights into their lives before the presidency, revealing their humorous, incisive, and emotional sides, and shedding light on leadership and the human experience

      While political books may not always meet high expectations, there are exceptions. Former presidents Ulysses Grant, Jimmy Carter, and George Bush have written memoirs that offer unique insights into their lives before the presidency. Ulysses Grant's memoirs provide a humorous and incisive account of his military career, settling scores with notable figures like Robert E. Lee. Jimmy Carter's "An Hour Before Daylight" offers a beautifully written account of growing up on a farm in Georgia during the Depression, revealing his love for the intricacies of farm life and shedding light on pre-civil rights race relations. George Bush's "All the Best" is a massive collection of letters that reveal the president's personal side, showing a man who was often criticized for being aloof and demonstrating a depth of emotion and connection with his family. These books offer valuable perspectives on leadership and the human experience, reminding us that political figures are complex individuals with rich histories.

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    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

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    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

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    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

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    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

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    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

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    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

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    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    “The Jetsons” premiered in 1962. And based on the internal math of the show, George Jetson, the dad, was born in 2022. He’d be a toddler right now. And we are so far away from the world that show imagined. There were a lot of future-trippers in the 1960s, and most of them would be pretty disappointed by how that future turned out.

    So what happened? Why didn’t we build that future?

    The answer, I think, lies in the 1970s. I’ve been spending a lot of time studying that decade in my work, trying to understand why America is so bad at building today. And James Pethokoukis has also spent a lot of time looking at the 1970s, in his work trying to understand why America is less innovative today than it was in the postwar decades. So Pethokoukis and I are asking similar questions, and circling the same time period, but from very different ideological vantages.

    Pethokoukis is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and author of the book “The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised.” He also writes a newsletter called Faster, Please! “The two screamingly obvious things that we stopped doing is we stopped spending on science, research and development the way we did in the 1960s,” he tells me, “and we began to regulate our economy as if regulation would have no impact on innovation.”

    In this conversation, we debate why the ’70s were such an inflection point; whether this slowdown phenomenon is just something that happens as countries get wealthier; and what the government’s role should be in supporting and regulating emerging technologies like A.I.

    Mentioned:

    U.S. Infrastructure: 1929-2017” by Ray C. Fair

    Book Recommendations

    Why Information Grows by Cesar Hidalgo

    The Expanse series by James S.A. Corey

    The American Dream Is Not Dead by Michael R. Strain

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 21, 2024

    The Disastrous Relationship Between Israel, Palestinians and the U.N.

    The Disastrous Relationship Between Israel, Palestinians and the U.N.

    The international legal system was created to prevent the atrocities of World War II from happening again. The United Nations partitioned historic Palestine to create the states of Israel and Palestine, but also left Palestinians with decades of false promises. The war in Gaza — and countless other conflicts, including those in Syria, Yemen and Ethiopia — shows how little power the U.N. and international law have to protect civilians in wartime. So what is international law actually for?

    Aslı Ü. Bâli is a professor at Yale Law School who specializes in international and comparative law. “The fact that people break the law and sometimes get away with it doesn’t mean the law doesn’t exist and doesn’t have force,” she argues.

    In this conversation, Bâli traces the gap between how international law is written on paper and the realpolitik of how countries decide to follow it, the U.N.’s unique role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from its very beginning, how the laws of war have failed Gazans but may be starting to change the conflict’s course, and more.

    Mentioned:

    With Schools in Ruins, Education in Gaza Will Be Hobbled for Years” by Liam Stack and Bilal Shbair

    Book Recommendations:

    Imperialism, Sovereignty and the Making of International Law by Antony Anghie

    Justice for Some by Noura Erakat

    Worldmaking After Empire by Adom Getachew

    The Constitutional Bind by Aziz Rana

    The United Nations and the Question of Palestine by Ardi Imseis

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Carole Sabouraud.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 17, 2024

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