Podcast Summary
From a traumatic injury to new opportunities: Even devastating experiences can lead to new paths and unexpected opportunities, emphasizing the importance of resilience and adaptability.
Our experiences, even those that seem devastating at first, can lead us to new paths and unexpected opportunities. Dr. Maya Shankar, a behavioral scientist and podcast host, shared her personal story of how a traumatic hand injury at the age of 15 ended her violin career. However, it opened doors to new experiences, including studying at Juilliard and eventually leading Google's behavioral science teams. This conversation highlights the importance of resilience and the ability to adapt to change. Additionally, Maya's expertise in human behavior and decision-making provides insights into how we can influence people to make the decisions we desire. Her podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, explores these topics in depth. Overall, this conversation emphasizes the power of perseverance and the unexpected opportunities that can arise from adversity.
Seizing Opportunities and Finding Joy: Be relentless in pursuing your goals, seize unexpected opportunities, and find joy in the connections you make along the way.
Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands and create opportunities for yourself. Maya's parents weren't able to directly help her achieve her dream of attending Juilliard, but her mother's fearlessness and determination led them to unexpectedly meet a violin teacher and audition on the spot. This experience taught Maya the importance of hard work, relentlessness, and the power of asking for help. Additionally, Maya discovered a deep love for emotionally connecting with her audience through music, which stayed with her in her future pursuits. Overall, Maya's story highlights the importance of seizing opportunities, staying committed to your goals, and finding joy in the connections you make along the way.
Discovering new passions in the face of loss: Even when faced with significant losses, it's possible to find new passions and areas of study that provide emotional connection and fascination. This can lead to exciting academic careers.
Even when faced with significant losses or changes in life, such as losing the ability to play an instrument, it's possible to find new passions and areas of study that provide the same emotional connection and fascination. For the speaker, this led her to the field of cognitive science, which is the interdisciplinary study of how the mind works, including how we make decisions, develop attitudes and beliefs, and understand complex concepts like language and mathematics. Her undergraduate experience in cognitive science, with its focus on multiple perspectives and hands-on research, further fueled her excitement for the field and prepared her for a successful academic career.
From academia to the White House: Following your passion: Following your passion can lead to unexpected opportunities, even if it means taking risks and facing uncertainty.
Following your passion and making a career change is not easy, but it's worth it if it aligns with who you are and what you want to do. Maya, a cognitive neuroscientist, shares her experience of feeling misaligned in her academic career and how she was inspired by real-life applications of behavioral economics in the Obama White House. Despite the uncertainty and anxiety, she reached out to her mentor and role model, Laurie Santos, for advice. Laurie introduced her to the impactful work being done in the White House, which ignited Maya's passion for applying behavioral science insights to improve people's lives. However, there was no job for a behavioral scientist in the White House at the time. Undeterred, Maya took inspiration from her mother's determination to get into Juilliard and sent a cold email to Cass Sunstein, an academic luminary in the field. Her persistence paid off, and she eventually joined the Obama White House as a behavioral scientist, demonstrating that taking risks and following your passion can lead to remarkable opportunities.
Believe in yourself and take risks: Believing in your abilities and taking calculated risks can lead to unexpected opportunities, even in unfamiliar fields. Strong networks and openness to new connections can also play a crucial role in career advancement.
Being confident and persistent in showcasing your skills and ideas can lead to unexpected opportunities. Maya, a behavioral scientist with no public policy experience, downplayed her abilities but was discovered by a prominent figure in the industry. Despite her insecurities, she took a risk and moved to DC to pursue the job, eventually joining the Obama White House. This story emphasizes the importance of believing in oneself and being proactive in pursuing goals, even when faced with self-doubt. Additionally, having a strong network and being open to new connections can lead to significant opportunities. Maya's encounter with Cas was a pivotal moment in her career, demonstrating the power of networking and the generosity of those in positions of influence.
Managing Multiple Investment Accounts: A Personal Experience: Stay adaptable and proactive in managing finances and personal growth to beat inflation and create wealth. Avoid sunk cost fallacy and keep an open mind to new opportunities and identities.
Investing your money wisely is crucial to beating inflation and growing your wealth. The speaker shares her experience of managing multiple investment accounts and the challenges she faced before discovering Yahoo Finance, which allows users to link and manage all their accounts in one place. Another key takeaway is the importance of being open-minded and not falling victim to the sunk cost fallacy, which is the emotional attachment to past investments or identities that can hinder progress. The speaker shares her personal experience of evolving her identity and skills to create a dream career, despite initial resistance. She encourages listeners to avoid identity foreclosure and keep an open mind to new opportunities and identities. In essence, being adaptable and proactive in managing finances and personal growth can lead to significant benefits.
Embracing adaptation and pivot for growth: Adapt and pivot when faced with failure or rejection, focus on mission and identity, maintain an optimistic mindset, and be persistent.
Embracing the ability to adapt and pivot when faced with failure or rejection is crucial for personal growth and success. This was evident in the speaker's experience at Hot 97, where she was fired and had to rebrand herself, and in her time at the White House, where she built a behavioral science team from scratch. The speaker emphasized the importance of focusing on one's mission and owning one's identity, rather than being tied to a specific role or brand. She also shared the value of maintaining an optimistic mindset and being persistent, even when faced with challenges and lack of experience. By sharing her stories, the speaker humanized the idea that success is not linear and that perseverance and resilience are essential in navigating the twists and turns of life.
Inspiring organic interest and aligning recommendations with existing goals: To build a team or implement new ideas within an organization, inspire organic interest, align with goals, leverage quick wins, and maintain a start-up culture.
When trying to build a team or implement new ideas within an organization, especially in the absence of a high-level mandate, it's essential to inspire organic interest and align recommendations with existing goals. Naivete and optimism can be assets, as they allow for creative approaches and the ability to ignite excitement and imagination. Quick wins and deadlines can also be effective motivators. The speaker's experience at the White House demonstrates that while the failure rate may be high, the cultural change and sustained impact can be significant when people are doing the work because they see inherent value in it. The speaker's approach, which involved knocking on every door, engaging at all levels of government, and organizing a meeting with luminaries in the field, ultimately led to a more start-up like culture in the government.
Using behavioral science in government policies: Behavioral science insights can lead to effective policy changes, like reordering ballot candidate names or email wording, resulting in improved government services and positive impacts on people's lives
The use of behavioral science in government policies and programs can lead to significant changes in human behavior and decision-making, even among government officials. The "nudge unit," as an example of this approach, employs insights from behavioral science to design public policies and programs that reflect the surprising features of human behavior. By understanding these features, the government can make small but impactful changes, such as the order of candidate names on ballots or the wording of emails, to solve complex problems and reach Americans more effectively. This approach, as illustrated by the success story of a veteran's educational and employment benefit program, can lead to substantial improvements in people's lives and the overall effectiveness of government services.
Building trust and effective communication in addressing complex issues: Clear information dissemination and the right messenger are crucial, but deeper issues like mistrust require long-term strategies, such as behavioral science and rebuilding relationships.
Effective communication and trust are crucial in addressing complex issues, especially those rooted in systemic problems. In the case of the Flint water crisis, clear information dissemination and the right messenger were essential, but the deeper issue was the lack of trust between the community and the government. This mistrust was a result of decades of disenfranchisement and deceit towards communities of color. The use of behavioral science to rebuild trust between residents and their government was a promising strategy, but unfortunately, many efforts were truncated after the 2016 election. In the business world, this lesson can be applied to hiring practices. Attracting the right candidates with the right character, attitude, and reliability is essential, and platforms like Indeed can help streamline the hiring process by doing the heavy lifting and delivering perfect matches for job requirements. Ultimately, building trust and effective communication are key to addressing complex issues, whether in government or business.
Understanding the roots of beliefs for effective nudging: To change deeply-held beliefs, it's essential to understand their underlying causes and tailor interventions accordingly. Temptation bundling can be an effective tactic for inspiring change.
Changing people's deeply-held beliefs and values is a complex task that goes beyond just presenting facts or evidence. According to the discussion, our identities and group memberships are closely tied to our beliefs, making it difficult to change our minds without addressing the underlying reasons for those beliefs. This was highlighted during the COVID-19 pandemic, where wearing masks became a cultural statement and a signal of group membership for some individuals. To effectively nudge people towards positive changes, it's essential to understand the root causes of their beliefs and tailor interventions accordingly. The use of tactics like temptation bundling, which pairs an undesirable activity with a desirable reward, can be effective in inspiring change within individuals. For more insights on nudging and changing behavior, listeners are encouraged to check out the conversations between the guest and Adam Grant and Katie Milkman on the guest's podcast, "The Slight Change of Plans."
Understanding Social Norms Influence Our Behaviors: Awareness of social norms and cognitive biases can help us motivate pro-social behaviors and make informed decisions, as seen in energy usage and social media contexts. Loss aversion and the peak-end rule are examples of biases that impact our memories and perceptions.
Social norms have a significant impact on our behaviors and decisions in the workplace and beyond. We are heavily influenced by those around us, and understanding this can help us leverage positive norms to motivate pro-social behaviors. This was demonstrated in a study where energy usage decreased when homeowners were informed that their neighbors were using less energy. Similarly, in social media contexts, people are more likely to engage in behaviors if they see others within their community doing the same. To make effective decisions, it's essential to be aware of cognitive biases, such as loss aversion and the peak-end rule. Loss aversion means we feel the pain of loss more acutely than the pleasure of gain, while the peak-end rule indicates that the most emotionally intense moment and the end of an experience significantly impact our memories and perceptions. By recognizing these biases, we can make more informed decisions and minimize their impact on our actions.
The Peak-End Rule and IKEA Effect in Experiences: People tend to judge experiences based on the most intense moment (peak) and the end, making it crucial to focus on making these parts positive. The IKEA effect increases our value of things we contribute to, even with objective flaws.
The way we remember experiences can be significantly influenced by the intensity and duration of the most intense moments, a phenomenon known as the peak-end rule. This rule suggests that people tend to judge an experience based on the most intense moment (the peak) and the very end (the end). Therefore, it's crucial to make the most intense moments and the end of experiences as positive as possible. Additionally, the IKEA effect refers to the increased value we place on things we have built or contributed to, even if they have objective flaws. In the context of the discussion, the speaker shared how elongating exams but making the end less painful can lead to more follow-up visits. This phenomenon can be explained by the peak-end rule, as the overall discomfort might be longer, but the intensity at the end is less. This rule can be applied to various aspects of life, including job interviews, where focusing on the most emotionally intense moments and the end can make a significant difference. Furthermore, the speaker mentioned the IKEA effect, which highlights the value we attach to things we have contributed to, even if they have objective flaws. This effect can be seen in the speaker's decision to start a podcast, inspired by her personal experiences and the need to help people navigate change. The podcast features interviews with individuals who have navigated extraordinary change in their lives, providing valuable insights and lessons.
Navigating Change with Humility and an Open Mind: Approach change with humility, openness, and mindfulness of spillover effects. Build a strong community for support during challenging times. Embrace change for personal growth and resilience.
Change is a complex process that affects various aspects of our lives in ways we may not anticipate. As we navigate change, whether desired or unwanted, it's essential to approach it with humility and an open mind. The stories of individuals who have experienced significant changes, like Elna Baker's journey with weight loss and Scott's experience with cancer, offer valuable insights. Change doesn't occur in a vacuum, and its impact can be far-reaching. We should be mindful of the spillover effects and the unexpected responses from ourselves and others. Sometimes, the changes we dread can lead to unexpected silver linings. Building a strong community of supporters can help us navigate change and provide strength and wisdom during challenging times. Ultimately, embracing change with humility and an open mind can lead to personal growth and resilience. To learn more about the guest and her podcast, "A Slight Change of Plan," visit her website.
