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    • Steve Jobs' Unconventional Interviewing StyleSteve Jobs' unconventional interviewing style tested potential hires' knowledge and experience, as seen with Jordan from Disney and Stanford, who impressed Jobs with his defense and impressions.

      Steve Jobs, known for his unconventional interviewing style, questioned the backgrounds and experiences of potential hires, including Jordan, who had worked at Disney and become a management consultant after attending Stanford Business School. Jobs' seemingly harsh questions were actually a test, and Jordan was able to defend his choices and impress Jobs with his knowledge and experience. This anecdote is from the book "The Founders" about PayPal and the early days of Silicon Valley, and it connects to the topic of this current discussion as Lawrence Levy, the first CFO of Pixar, also shares his experiences working with Jobs during Pixar's early days in the book "To Pixar and Beyond." The early history of Pixar, as detailed in Levy's book, provides insights into Jobs' business mindset and the strategic imperatives that enabled Pixar to flourish despite financial struggles in its early years. Notably, Toy Story, the first computer-animated feature film, was made by Pixar during this time.

    • Creative and business sides of Pixar and PayPalThe tension between creativity and business can lead to groundbreaking discoveries and successful organizations

      The creative and business sides of a company, while seemingly at odds, are essential for each other's success. This was evident in the early days of Pixar, where the creative talents of Ed Catmull and John Lasseter worked alongside the business acumen of Lawrence Levy and Steve Jobs to transform Pixar from a struggling creative endeavor into a multibillion-dollar company. However, joining Pixar in 1994, during Steve Jobs' less successful period, was a risk. Jobs' past failures and the uncertainty of Pixar's future made it a daunting prospect. But as history shows, the tensions between creativity and business, rather than being a hindrance, can lead to groundbreaking discoveries. This idea was also reflected in the early days of PayPal, where disharmony produced discovery. Ultimately, the collaboration between these two forces is crucial for building great organizations and living great lives.

    • Steve Jobs' personal investment in PixarSteve Jobs' belief in Pixar's potential and his personal investment, despite financial losses, led to its transformation into a successful animation studio and software developer.

      Steve Jobs' unconventional business practices, including personally funding a struggling Pixar with large sums of money, played a crucial role in its success. Despite facing criticism, Jobs didn't dismiss the concerns but instead visited Pixar to see their progress firsthand. Impressed by their work and Ed Catmull's vision, Jobs learned the importance of having a high standard of talent and continued to invest in the company, even when it was operating month-to-month and losing money. This unwavering support helped transform Pixar into a successful animation studio and software developer, ultimately leading to its acquisition by Disney for billions of dollars.

    • Discovering the Hidden Value of a Company or OpportunitySkepticism can be challenged by passionate leaders and transformative experiences, leading to unexpected opportunities and personal growth.

      Sometimes, the true potential and value of a company or opportunity may not be immediately apparent, and it can take a transformative experience or encounter with passionate and dedicated leaders to truly understand it. The speaker's initial skepticism about joining a struggling animation company like Pixar was challenged when he witnessed their creative and technical wizardry firsthand. Despite the company's financial instability, the speaker was moved by John Lasseter's deep commitment to his team and the importance he placed on their recognition and success. This experience resonated with the speaker's desire for adventure and a life beyond the conventional, leading him to join Pixar and eventually play a significant role in its eventual success. Ultimately, the speaker came to view Lasseter as a guardian of Pixar's soul, dedicating himself to the company's vision and mission, much like Sydney Harman did for his own company.

    • Trusting your instincts and taking calculated risksIntuition and calculated risks can lead to success, even in uncertain situations. Focus on core products and eliminate distractions to increase chances of success.

      That intuition and taking calculated risks can lead to significant success, even when the situation seems uncertain or irrational. This was exemplified in Lawrence's decision to join Pixar, despite the company's financial instability and uncertain future. Steve Jobs, with his intense focus and determination, was able to turn Pixar's talent and innovative technology into a profitable business by eliminating distractions and focusing on their core products. This principle, of cutting non-essential activities and focusing on the main goal, is a valuable lesson for entrepreneurs and professionals alike. Additionally, the discussion highlights Steve Jobs' relentless drive and intensity, which contributed significantly to his success throughout his career.

    • Valuing listening and collaboration over dominanceSuccessful leaders like Steve Jobs and Michael Jordan prioritize teamwork and mutual resolutions, fostering growth and survival through collective efforts and persistence.

      Successful leaders, like Steve Jobs and Michael Jordan, value listening and collaboration over dominance. Jobs, as described by Lawrence Levy, preferred reaching mutual resolutions with his team rather than imposing his will. This approach, as Jordan noted, is crucial for survival and growth. The story of Pixar is a testament to this, as the team faced numerous challenges and setbacks, but persisted through their collective efforts and Jobs' stubbornness. Even when it seemed like all their businesses were failing, they continued to experiment with new ideas, ultimately leading to the success of Toy Story and the future opportunities it brought. The rock tumbler metaphor Steve often used encapsulates this idea: rough ideas and processes are refined through collaboration and persistence, leading to smooth and beautiful outcomes.

    • Staying focused on future actions and seizing opportunitiesRegardless of external challenges, it's essential to maintain focus on the next move and recognize opportunities for success

      Resilience and adaptability are crucial for success, especially when facing seemingly insurmountable challenges. Lawrence, the co-founder of Pixar, expressed regret about taking the job due to the company's financial struggles and Disney's dominance. However, he applied advice from his mentors to focus on his next move rather than dwelling on circumstances beyond his control. Pixar's mission to create the first successful animated film was compared to historic achievements like climbing Everest or landing on the moon. The team conducted extensive research to understand the potential market for home video sales, which Disney had been quietly profiting from. Despite a lack of data and industry models, they recognized the opportunity and eventually renegotiated their deal, leading to significant financial success. This story illustrates the importance of staying focused on future actions and seizing opportunities, even in the face of significant challenges and uncertainty.

    • Learning from Disney's Early DaysPixar's founders looked to Disney's history for inspiration during their disagreement about going public, recognizing the potential for creativity and innovation in the face of uncertainty.

      Pixar's founders, Steve Jobs and Ed Catmull, saw the potential for enormous profits in the home video market for animated feature films, inspired by Disney's success with classics like Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King. However, Jobs was eager to take Pixar public, while Catmull was more conservative. This disagreement was rooted in the unprecedented nature of taking an independent animation company public. Despite this lack of precedent, Catmull drew parallels between Disney's early days and Pixar's current situation. Disney's founder, Walt Disney, encountered animated cartoons during World War 1 and, fearing he had entered the field too late, pushed the field into new territory creatively and technologically. This resonated with Pixar's groundbreaking work in computer-generated animation. Despite the financial struggles Disney faced, Catmull believed that Pixar could learn from Disney's diversification into television and theme parks to reduce their risk. By considering these historical insights, Pixar was able to navigate the uncharted waters of taking an animation company public.

    • Focusing on animation production for control and successPixar's focus on computer animated films gave them more control over their product and increased their chances of continued success. Holding onto their library and improving technology made them a leading player in entertainment.

      Having the ability to iterate and control the creative process is a significant advantage in the entertainment industry, particularly in animation and tech production. Steve Jobs and Ed Catmull recognized this and decided to focus on producing high-quality computer animated films at Pixar, rather than venturing into live action. This approach allowed them to have more control over their product and increase their chances of continued success. As Warren Buffett once said, time is a friend to the great and a enemy to the mediocre. By holding onto their valuable library of films and continuously improving their animation technology, Pixar was able to thrive and become a leading player in the entertainment industry.

    • Steve Jobs' unwavering belief in Pixar's brand identityStrong brand identity is essential for a company's growth, even during financial risks and challenges. Unwavering belief in the value and potential of a brand can lead to unprecedented success.

      Having a strong brand identity is crucial for a company's success, especially during critical moments in its growth. This is evident in the story of Pixar Animation Studios, as depicted in the book "Steve Jobs" by Walter Isaacson. Faced with the decision to either become a supplier to Disney or build Pixar into a renowned entertainment brand, Steve Jobs stood firm and prioritized the latter. He understood that without a strong brand, the company would not thrive. This principle is illustrated through various anecdotes, including the story of Sony founder Akio Morita and fashion brand founder Ralph Lauren, who also refused to compromise their brand identities. Despite the financial risks and challenges, Jobs' unwavering belief in the value and potential of Pixar propelled the company forward, leading to unprecedented box office success and global recognition.

    • Steve Jobs' belief in Pixar's potential leads to successful IPOSteve Jobs' unwavering belief in Pixar's unique vision and potential, combined with strategic timing and Hal Vogel's endorsement, led to a successful IPO despite perceived risks.

      Steve Jobs' unwavering belief and conviction in Pixar's unique vision and potential was instrumental in securing a successful public offering, despite the perceived business risks. Jobs' ability to envision the impact of Pixar's revolutionary technology and storytelling on investors was a game-changer. Hal Vogel, a top analyst in the entertainment industry, recognized Pixar's potential as a company that combined great story, technology breakthroughs, and seasoned management. His endorsement provided a significant boost of confidence for Pixar's team. Ultimately, Pixar's IPO was a success, exceeding expectations and paving the way for the company's continued growth and innovation. Jobs' belief that the gestation of great products takes longer than it appears and his strategic timing of the IPO after the release of Toy Story proved to be a winning formula.

    • Impact of Toy Story's box office success on Pixar's IPOToy Story's unexpected success led to a significant increase in Pixar's valuation during their IPO, bringing new challenges for the team to maintain their success through long-term excellence and sustained performance.

      The success of Toy Story's opening weekend box office significantly impacted Pixar's Initial Public Offering (IPO), leading to a massive valuation and financial gain for the company. This unexpected success, however, brought new challenges for Pixar, including the need to produce more films, earn a larger share of profits, and build the brand beyond a one-hit wonder. The team, led by Steve Jobs, Ed Catmull, and John Lasseter, understood that long-term excellence and sustained performance were essential to maintain their success. Creative vision does not come easily, and the team's talent and dedication were crucial to overcoming the challenges that came with their newfound success.

    • Preserving creative freedom at PixarTrusting the vision and depth of a team allows for the creation of truly original stories, even in a public company setting.

      At Pixar, the founders, John Lasseter and Ed Catmull, were determined to preserve the creative freedom of their team to produce groundbreaking films. They believed that the heart and soul of their storytellers were crucial to creating emotionally resonant and innovative movies. Despite being a public company, they resisted the urge to hire a creative director or impose external oversight, instead trusting their team's vision and depth. This approach, which might seem risky to some, was in line with Steve Jobs' philosophy at Apple, where the founders' creative influence was paramount. As Elon Musk puts it, "the founder may be bizarre and erratic, but this is a creative force and they should run the company." Pixar's commitment to making films from the heart, without interference, allowed them to create truly original stories that had never been seen or heard before.

    • Negotiating Creativity's Future at Pixar and DisneyFear and ego can hinder creativity but determination and a clear understanding of the situation can help overcome challenges and pave the way for success.

      Fear and ego can hinder creativity and limit opportunities. In the case of Pixar and Disney, Disney held significant leverage due to their established film library, merchandising capabilities, and successful theme parks. Pixar, on the other hand, had only one hit, Toy Story, and was facing the possibility that animation might be losing priority at Disney. Steve Jobs and Edwin Catmull, the leaders of Pixar, recognized this and began to build a case for their studio. They highlighted their ability to fund their own productions through an IPO and the continued success of Toy Story. Additionally, they brought up the fact that Jeffrey Katzenberg, a key player at Disney, had recently left the company. Despite these points, Disney held the power to stick to their contract and invest in computer animation themselves, making it a challenging negotiation for Pixar. This story serves as a reminder that creativity can face obstacles from external forces, but with determination and a clear understanding of the situation, one can overcome those challenges and pave the way for success.

    • Steve Jobs' Negotiations with DisneySteve Jobs' unwavering stance on creative control, equal branding, and profit sharing led to Pixar becoming a central percentage owner of Disney's ABC ESPN entity.

      Steve Jobs was a formidable negotiator who held strong convictions in his negotiations with Disney's CEO, Bob Iger, over the sale of Pixar. Jobs refused to compromise on creative control, equal branding, and profit sharing, even if it meant walking away from the deal multiple times. His determination paid off, as Disney eventually agreed to his terms, resulting in Pixar becoming a central percentage owner of Disney's ABC ESPN entity. Jobs' unwavering stance on branding was crucial to him, as he saw Pixar as more than just a subcontractor, but as a brand in its own right. This story illustrates Jobs' ability to use time effectively and hold firm to his convictions, ultimately leading to a successful outcome for Pixar.

    • Steve Jobs' Called Off Negotiations with Disney Led to Unexpected ProfitNegative events can lead to positive outcomes. Keep an open mind and consider the long-term implications.

      Sometimes, seemingly negative events can lead to unexpected positive outcomes. This was the case when Steve Jobs called off negotiations with Disney in 2004, only to later sell Pixar to Disney in 2006 for a massive profit. At the time, Jobs was unhappy with Disney's then-CEO Michael Eisner and saw the negotiations as a waste of time. However, when Eisner was replaced by Bob Iger, who shared Jobs' passion for animation, the relationship between Pixar and Disney improved dramatically. Iger's openness and commitment to animation resonated with Jobs, and the two companies built a strong partnership. The acquisition of Pixar by Disney proved to be one of the most successful corporate deals of its time, significantly boosting Disney's business and making Jobs Disney's largest stockholder. The experience shows that it's important to keep an open mind and consider the long-term implications of events, even when they seem unfavorable at first.

    • Entrepreneurs face emotional losses during business salesEntrepreneurs invest emotions in their businesses, leading to profound feelings of loss during sales, often overlooked in business transactions

      While business transactions may bring financial success, they can also result in profound emotional losses for entrepreneurs. As the story of Pixar's sale to Disney illustrates, entrepreneurs like Lawrence, Ed, Steve, and John pour their hearts and souls into their companies, creating deep personal connections. When these companies are sold, the formal ties and relationships dissolve, leaving entrepreneurs with a sense of loss. This emotional aspect of business is often overlooked, but it's essential to acknowledge and understand. Just as parents feel a sense of loss when their children grow up and leave home, entrepreneurs may feel a similar sense of loss when they sell their companies. It's important to remember that business is not just a chessboard or a game of making the right moves; it's also a deeply personal journey.

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    (1:00) You've got to start with the customer experience and work back toward the technology—not the other way around.  —Steve Jobs in 1997

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    (29:00) Marketing is theatre.

    (32:00) Belief is irresistible. — Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil Knight.  (Founders #186)

    (35:00) I think one of the things that really separates us from the high primates is that we’re tool builders. I read a study that measured the efficiency of locomotion for various species on the planet. The condor used the least energy to move a kilometer. And, humans came in with a rather unimpressive showing, about a third of the way down the list. It was not too proud a showing for the crown of creation. So, that didn’t look so good. But, then somebody at Scientific American had the insight to test the efficiency of locomotion for a man on a bicycle. And, a man on a bicycle, a human on a bicycle, blew the condor away, completely off the top of the charts.

    And that’s what a computer is to me. What a computer is to me is it’s the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with, it’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds.

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    #349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

    #349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

    What I learned from reading Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success by Ken Segall. 

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    (1:30) Steve wanted Apple to make a product that was simply amazing and amazingly simple.

    (3:00) If you don’t zero in on your bureaucracy every so often, you will naturally build in layers. You never set out to add bureaucracy. You just get it. Period. Without even knowing it. So you always have to be looking to eliminate it.  — Sam Walton: Made In America by Sam Walton. (Founders #234)

    (5:00) Steve was always easy to understand. He would either approve a demo, or he would request to see something different next time. Whenever Steve reviewed a demo, he would say, often with highly detailed specificity, what he wanted to happen next.  — Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs by Ken Kocienda. (Founders #281)

    (7:00) Watch this video. Andy Miller tells GREAT Steve Jobs stories

    (10:00) Many are familiar with the re-emergence of Apple. They may not be as familiar with the fact that it has few, if any parallels.
    When did a founder ever return to the company from which he had been rudely rejected to engineer a turnaround as complete and spectacular as Apple's? While turnarounds are difficult in any circumstances they are doubly difficult in a technology company. It is not too much of a stretch to say that Steve founded Apple not once but twice. And the second time he was alone. 

    —  Return to the Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and the Creation of Appleby Michael Moritz.

    (15:00) If the ultimate decision maker is involved every step of the way the quality of the work increases.

    (20:00) "You asked the question, What was your process like?' I kind of laugh because process is an organized way of doing things. I have to remind you, during the 'Walt Period' of designing Disneyland, we didn't have processes. We just did the work. Processes came later. All of these things had never been done before. Walt had gathered up all these people who had never designed a theme park, a Disneyland. So we're in the same boat at one time, and we figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly as we go along with it and not even discuss plans, timing, or anything. We just worked and Walt just walked around and had suggestions." — Disney's Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow. (Founders #347)

    (23:00) The further you get away from 1 the more complexity you invite in.

    (25:00) Your goal: A single idea expressed clearly.

    (26:00) Jony Ive: Steve was the most focused person I’ve met in my life

    (28:00) Editing your thinking is an act of service.

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    Michael Jordan In His Own Words

    Michael Jordan In His Own Words

    What I learned from reading Driven From Within by Michael Jordan and Mark Vancil. 

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    Episode Outline: 

    Players who practice hard when no one is paying attention play well when everyone is watching.

    It's hard, but it's fair. I live by those words. 

    To this day, I don't enjoy working. I enjoy playing, and figuring out how to connect playing with business. To me, that's my niche. People talk about my work ethic as a player, but they don't understand. What appeared to be hard work to others was simply playing for me.

    You have to be uncompromised in your level of commitment to whatever you are doing, or it can disappear as fast as it appeared. 

    Look around, just about any person or entity achieving at a high level has the same focus. The morning after Tiger Woods rallied to beat Phil Mickelson at the Ford Championship in 2005, he was in the gym by 6:30 to work out. No lights. No cameras. No glitz or glamour. Uncompromised. 

    I knew going against the grain was just part of the process.

    The mind will play tricks on you. The mind was telling you that you couldn't go any further. The mind was telling you how much it hurt. The mind was telling you these things to keep you from reaching your goal. But you have to see past that, turn it all off if you are going to get where you want to be.

    I would wake up in the morning thinking: How am I going to attack today?

    I’m not so dominant that I can’t listen to creative ideas coming from other people. Successful people listen. Those who don’t listen, don’t survive long.

    In all honesty, I don't know what's ahead. If you ask me what I'm going to do in five years, I can't tell you. This moment? Now that's a different story. I know what I'm doing moment to moment, but I have no idea what's ahead. I'm so connected to this moment that I don't make assumptions about what might come next, because I don't want to lose touch with the present. Once you make assumptions about something that might happen, or might not happen, you start limiting the potential outcomes. 

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    Founders
    en-usMay 12, 2024

    #348 The Financial Genius Behind A Century of Wall Street Scandals: Ivar Kreuger

    #348 The Financial Genius Behind A Century of Wall Street Scandals: Ivar Kreuger

    What I learned from reading The Match King: Ivar Kreuger, The Financial Genius Behind a Century of Wall Street Scandals by Frank Partnoy. 

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    1. Ivar was charismatic. His charisma was not natural. Ivar spent hours every day just preparing to talk. He practiced his lines for hours like great actors do.

    2. Ivar’s first pitch was simple, easy to understand, and legitimate: By investing in Swedish Match, Americans could earn profits from a monopoly abroad.

    3. Joseph Duveen noticed that Europe had plenty of art and America had plenty of money, and his entire astonishing career was the product of that simple observation. — The Days of Duveen by S.N. Behrman.  (Founders #339 Joseph Duveen: Robber Baron Art Dealer)

    4. Ivar studied Rockefeller and Carnegie: Ivar's plan was to limit competition and increase profits by securing a monopoly on match sales throughout the world, mimicking the nineteenth century oil, sugar, and steel trusts.

    5. When investors were manic, they would purchase just about anything. But during the panic that inevitably followed mania, the opposite was true. No one would buy.

    6. The problem isn’t getting rich. The problem is staying sane. — Charlie Munger

    7. Ivar understood human psychology. If something is limited and hard to get to that increases desire. This works for both products (like a Ferrari) and people (celebrities). Ivar was becoming a business celebrity.

    8.  I’ve never believed in risking what my family and friends have and need in order to pursue what they don't have and don't need. — The Essays of Warren Buffett by Warren Buffett and Lawrence Cunningham. (Founders #227)

    9. Great ideas are simple ideas: Ivar hooked Durant with his simple, brilliant idea: government loans in exchange for match monopolies.

    10. Ivar wrote to his parents, "I cannot believe that I am intended to spend my life making money for second-rate people. I shall bring American methods back home. Wait and see - I shall do great things. I'm bursting with ideas. I am only wondering which to carry out first."

    11. Ivar’s network of companies was far too complex for anyone to understand: It was like a corporate family tree from hell, and it extended into obscurity.

    12. “Victory in our industry is spelled survival.”   —Steve Jobs

    13. Ivar's financial statements were sloppy and incomplete. Yet investors nevertheless clamored to buy his securities.

    14. As more cash flowed in the questions went away. This is why Ponzi like schemes can last so long. People don’t want to believe. They don’t want the cash to stop.

    15. A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders #222)

    16.  A summary of Charlie Munger on incentives:

    1. We all underestimate the power of incentives.
    2. Never, ever think about anything else before the power of incentives.
    3. The most important rule: get the incentives right.

    17. This is nuts! Fake phones and hired actors!

    Next to the desk was a table with three telephones. The middle phone was a dummy, a non-working phone that Ivar could cause to ring by stepping on a button under the desk. That button was a way to speed the exit of talkative visitors who were staying too long. Ivar also used the middle phone to impress his supporters. When Percy Rockefeller visited Ivar pretended to receive calls from various European government officials, including Mussolini and Stalin. That evening, Ivar threw a lavish party and introduced Rockefeller to numerous "ambassadors" from various countries, who actually were movie extras he had hired for the night.

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    #347 How Walt Disney Built His Greatest Creation: Disneyland

    #347 How Walt Disney Built His Greatest Creation: Disneyland

    What I learned from reading Disney's Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow. 

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    (8:00) When in 1955 we heard that Disney had opened an amusement park under his own name, it appeared certain that we could not look forward to anything new from Mr. Disney.

    We were quite wrong.

    He had, instead, created his masterpiece.

    (13:00) This may be the greatest product launch of all time: He had run eight months of his television program. He hadn't named his new show Walt Disney Presents or The Wonderful World of Walt Disney.

    It was called simply Disneyland, and every weekly episode was an advertisement for the still unborn park.

    (15:00) Disneyland is the extension of the powerful personality of one man.

    (15:00) The creation of Disneyland was Walt Disney’s personal taste in physical form.

    (24:00) How strange that the boss would just drop it. Walt doesn’t give up. So he must have something else in mind.

    (26:00) Their mediocrity is my opportunity. It is an opportunity because there is so much room for improvement.

    (36:00) Roy Disney never lost his calm understanding that the company's prosperity rested not on the rock of conventional business practices, but on the churning, extravagant, perfectionist imagination of his younger brother.

    (41:00) Walt Disney’s decision to not relinquish his TV rights to United Artists was made in 1936. This decision paid dividends 20 years later. Hold on. Technology -- developed by other people -- constantly benefited Disney's business. Many such cases in the history of entrepreneurship.

    (43:00) Walt Disney did not look around. He looked in. He looked in to his personal taste and built a business that was authentic to himself.

    (54:00) "You asked the question, What was your process like?' I kind of laugh because process is an organized way of doing things. I have to remind you, during the 'Walt Period' of designing Disneyland, we didn't have processes.

    We just did the work. Processes came later. All of these things had never been done before.

    Walt had gathered up all these people who had never designed a theme park, a Disneyland.

    So we're in the same boat at one time, and we figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly as we go along with it and not even discuss plans, timing, or anything.

    We just worked and Walt just walked around and had suggestions."

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    #346 How Walt Disney Built Himself

    #346 How Walt Disney Built Himself

    What I learned from rereading Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination by Neal Gabler. 

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    (2:00) Disney’s key traits were raw ingenuity combined with sadistic determination.

    (3:00) I had spent a lifetime with a frustrated, and often unemployed man, who hated anybody who was successful. 

    Francis Ford Coppola: A Filmmaker's Life by Michael Schumacher. (Founders #242)

    (6:00) Disney put excelence before any other consideration.

    (11:00) Maybe the most important thing anyone ever said to him: You’re crazy to be a professor she told Ted. What you really want to do is draw. Ted’s notebooks were always filled with these fabulous animals. So I set to work diverting him. Here was a man who could draw such pictures. He should earn a living doing that. 

    Becoming Dr. Seuss: Theodor Geisel and the Making of an American Imagination by Brian Jay Jones. (Founders #161)

    (14:00) A quote about Edwin Land that would apply to Walt Disney too:

    Land had learned early on that total engrossment was the best way for him to work. He strongly believed that this kind of concentrated focus could also produce extraordinary results for others. Late in his career, Land recalled that his “whole life has been spent trying to teach people that intense concentration for hour after hour can bring out in people resources they didn’t know they had.”  A Triumph of Genius: Edwin Land, Polaroid, and the Kodak Patent War by Ronald Fierstein. (Founders #134)

    (15:00) My parents objected strenuously, but I finally talked them into letting me join up as a Red Cross ambulance driver. I had to lie about my age, of course. 

    In my company was another fellow who had lied about his age to get in. He was regarded as a strange duck, because whenever we had time off and went out on the town to chase girls, he stayed in camp drawing pictures.

    His name was Walt Disney.

    Grinding It Out: The Making of McDonald's by Ray Kroc. (Founders #293)

    (20:00) Walt Disney had big dreams. He had outsized aspirations.

    (22:00) A quote from Edwin Land that would apply to Walt Disney too: My motto is very personal and may not fit anyone else or any other company. It is: Don't do anything that someone else can do.

    (24:00) Walt Disney seldom dabbled. Everyone who knew him remarked on his intensity; when something intrigued him, he focused himself entirely as if it were the only thing that mattered.

    (29:00) He had the drive and ambition of 10 million men.

    (29:00) I'm going to sit tight. I have the greatest opportunity I've ever had, and I'm in it for everything.

    (31:00) He seemed confident beyond any logical reason for him to be so. It appeared that nothing discouraged him.

    (31:00) You have to take the hard knocks with the good breaks in life.

    (32:00) Nothing wrong with my aim, just gotta change the target. — Jay Z

    (35:00) He sincerely wanted to be counted among the best in his craft.

    (43:00) He didn't want to just be another animation producer. He wanted to be the king of animation. Disney believed that quality was his only real advantage.

    (47:00) Walt Disney wanted domination. Domination that would make his position unassailable.

    (49:00) Disney was always trying to make something he could be proud of.

    (50:00) We have a habit of divine discontent with our performance. It is an antidote to smugness.

    Eternal Pursuit of Unhappiness: Being Very Good Is No Good,You Have to Be Very, Very, Very, Very, Very Good by David Ogilvy and Ogivly & Mather.  (Founders #343)

    (53:00) While it is easy, of course, for me to celebrate my doggedness now and say that it is all you need to succeed, the truth is that it demoralized me terribly. I would crawl into the house every night covered in dust after a long day, exhausted and depressed because that day's cyclone had not worked. There were times when I thought it would never work, that I would keep on making cyclone after cyclone, never going forwards, never going backwards, until I died.

    Against the Odds: An Autobiography by James Dyson (Founders #300)

    (56:00) He doesn't place a premium on collecting friends or socializing: "I don't believe in 50 friends. I believe in a smaller number. Nor do I care about society events. It's the most senseless use of time. When I do go out, from time to time, it's just to convince myself again that I'm not missing a lot."

    The Red Bull Story by Wolfgang Fürweger (Founders #333)

    (1:02:00) Steve was at the center of all the circles.

    He made all the important product decisions.

    From my standpoint, as an individual programmer, demoing to Steve was like visiting the Oracle of Delphi.

    The demo was my question. Steve's response was the answer.

    While the pronouncements from the Greek Oracle often came in the form of confusing riddles, that wasn't true with Steve.

    He was always easy to understand.

    He would either approve a demo, or he would request to see something different next time.

    Whenever Steve reviewed a demo, he would say, often with highly detailed specificity, what he wanted to happen next.

    He was always trying to ensure the products were as intuitive and straightforward as possible, and he was willing to invest his own time, effort, and influence to see that they were.

    Through looking at demos, asking for specific changes, then reviewing the changed work again later on and giving a final approval before we could ship, Steve could make a product turn out like he wanted.

    Much like the Greek Oracle, Steve foretold the future.

    Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs by Ken Kocienda. (Founders #281)

    (1:07:00) He griped that when he hired veteran animators he had to “put up with their Goddamn poor working habits from doing cheap pictures.” He believed it was easier to start from scratch with young art students and indoctrinate them in the Disney system.

    (1:15:00) I don’t want to be relagated to the cartoon medium. We have worlds to conquer here.

    (1:17:00) Advice Henry Ford gave Walt Disney about selling his company: If you sell any of it you should sell all of it.

    (1:23:00) He kept a slogan pasted inside of his hat: You can’t top pigs with pigs. (A reminder that we have to keep blazing new trails.)

    (1:25:00) Disney’s Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow.

    (1:33:00) It is the detail. If we lose the detail, we lose it all.

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    #254 John D. Rockefeller: The Founding Father of the Rockefellers

    #254 John D. Rockefeller: The Founding Father of the Rockefellers

    What I learned from reading John D: The Founding Father of the Rockefellers by David Freeman Hawke.

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    [0:07] He transmitted messages in code and secrecy covered all of his operations.

    [0:39]  Rockefeller compared himself to Napoleon.

    [2:20] He could think quicker and along more individual and original lines than any of them.

    [2:35] It is always hard to successfully control what you don't understand.

    [3:32] Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller by Ron Chernow. (Founders #248)

    [7:27] By the time I was a man — long before it —I had learned the underlying principles of business and the rules of business as well as many men acquire them by the time they are 40. I needed no one to advise me about the nature of transactions with which I had been carrying on since childhood.

    [8:59] Random Reminiscences of Men and Events by John D. Rockefeller. (Founders #148)

    [10:55] You should try to expose yourself to experiences that are slightly ahead of your skillset or understanding and you should do so constantly.

    [13:48] A veteran of long-distance provider MCI, Price came to Amazon in 1999. He blundered early by suggesting in a meeting that Amazon executives who traveled frequently should be permitted to fly business-class. Bezos often said he wanted his colleagues to speak their minds, but at times it seemed he did not appreciate being personally challenged. “You would have thought I was trying to stop the Earth from tilting on its axis,” Price says, recalling that moment with horror years later. “Jeff slammed his hand on the table and said, ‘That is not how an owner thinks! That’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard.’ — The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon by Brad Stone (Founders #179)

    [18:42] He saw that posted rates, supposedly fixed, could also be negotiated. All was not as it seemed on the outside.

    [20:45] He was the greatest borrower I ever saw.

    [22:12] What if the president of a bank refused to make me a loan? That was nothing. That made no difference to me; simply meant that I must look elsewhere until I got what I wanted.

    [26:07] Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire by James Wallace and Jim Erickson (Founders #140)

    [26:41] Lost from view is the Rockefeller that Cleveland knew in the 1860s— a vigorous, alert gentleman with a quiet, but extraordinary personality.

    [29:10] Small egos do not build giant companies.

    [30:23] When Money Was In Fashion: Henry Goldman, Goldman Sachs, and the Founding of Wall Street by June Breton Fisher. (Founders #255)

    [33:10] The customer-experience path we've chosen requires us to have an efficient cost structure. The good news for shareowners is that we see much opportunity for improvement in that regard. Everywhere we look we find what experienced Japanese manufacturers would call muda, or waste.* I find this incredibly energizing. I see it as potential-years and years of variable and fixed productivity gains and more efficient, higher velocity, more flexible capital expenditures. — Invent and Wander: The Collected Writings of Jeff Bezos (Founders #155)

    [34:54] Other refiners groused about these restrictions, but in general they accepted them as facts to live with. Rockefeller refused to do so.

    [38:55] Last Train to Paradise: Henry Flagler and the Spectacular Rise and Fall of the Railroad that Crossed an Ocean by Les Standiford. (Founders #247)

    [40:15] You don’t want turnover on your core product team. Knowledge compounds. Don’t interrupt the compounding. — Softwar: An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison and Oracle by Matthew Symonds (Founders #124)

    [47:47] 1. You raise money so you can increase production. 2. Use your increased production to get better rates on transportation than other refiners. 3. Use your increased profits —because you have better transportation —to buy your competitors. 4. You continue to find secret sources of income.

    [55:23] Most simply doubted that Rockefeller's plan would work. John, it cannot be done, they said.

    [56:13] It was ruthless efficiency and hyper competence.

    [1:00:07] Rockefeller loves secret allies.

    [1:00:31] The secret ownership of other companies was so well preserved that often a refiner enraged by Standard’s ruthless tactics would refuse its offer to buy him out and sell instead to a local competitor—unaware that he had in fact sold out to Standard.

    [1:02:01] He believed that Standard Oil stock is the most valuable thing in the world to own and always bought more of it.

    [1:05:57] Check out how Rockefeller turns an expense into a profit center: Standard purchased a half interest in Chess, Carley & Company, the largest distributor of refined oil to the South and Southwest. Together they purchased a number of the newly introduced bulk tank cars. Chess-Carley shipped turpentine from southern pine forests to Cleveland, where the cars were emptied and the turpentine was sold in the local market. The tank cars were then filled with kerosene and sent back to Louisville for distribution. In a single swoop the huge expense of shipment by barrels had been eliminated.

    [1:09:22] He proceeded in the same steady, methodical way that a farmer plowed a field.

    [1:13:47] The danger Potts and the Pennsylvania railroad posed to his creation convinced Rockefeller that the time had come to pick a fight with the world's largest industrial corporation.

    [1:23:20] Rockefeller would have horse-drawn carriages drive up and down the streets and sell oil directly.

    [1:28:28] I think it is fair to say that the strong men who were competitors in the oil refining business, the aggressive men in the best financial condition, and the most intelligent, indeed the class of men who would be most likely to survive in the competitive struggle, were the men who were most likely to take up our idea of cooperation.

    [1:33:09] Dark Genius of Wall Street: The Misunderstood Life of Jay Gould, King of the Robber Barons by Edward J. Renehan Jr.

    [1:35:38] Jay Gould was the single most unsettling force ever to appear on the American industrial scene.

    [1:36:22] Among wheelers and dealers of his day Gould had no peer.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

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    #249 Steve Jobs In His Own Words

    #249 Steve Jobs In His Own Words

    What I learned from reading I, Steve: Steve Jobs In His Own Words by George Beahm.

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    [1:05]

    On Steve Jobs

    #5 Steve Jobs: The Biography
    #19 Becoming Steve Jobs: The Evolution of a Reckless Upstart into a Visionary Leader
    #76 Return To The Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and The Creation of Apple
    #77 Steve Jobs & The NeXT Big Thing
    #204 Inside Steve Jobs' Brain
    #214 Steve Jobs: The Exclusive Biography
    #235 To Pixar And Beyond: My Unlikely Journey with Steve Jobs to Make Entertainment History

    Bonus Episodes on Steve Jobs

    Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success (Between #112 and #113)
    Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs (Between #110 and #111)

    On Jony Ive and Steve Jobs

    #178 Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Products

    On Ed Catmull and Steve Jobs

    #34 Creativity Inc: Overcoming The Unseen Forces That Stand In The Way of True Inspiration

    On Steve Jobs and several other technology company founders

    #157 The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution

    #208 In the Company of Giants: Candid Conversations With the Visionaries of the Digital World

    [3:13] We're not going to be the first to this party, but we're going to be the best.

    [4:54] Company Focus: We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. We just want to make great products.

    [5:06] The roots of Apple were to build computers for people, not for corporations. The world doesn't need another Dell or Compaq.

    [5:52] Nearly all the founders I’ve read about have a handful of ideas/principles that are important to them and they just repeat and pound away at them forever.

    [7:00] You can oftentimes arrive at some very elegant and simple solutions. Most people just don't put in the time or energy to get there.

    [8:09] I think of Founders as a tool for working professionals. And what that tool does is it gets ideas from the history of entrepreneurship into your brain so then you can use them in your work. It just so happens that a podcast is a great way to achieve that goal.

    [8:48] Tim Ferriss Podcast #596 with Ed Thorp

    [8:50] A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders 222)

    [10:43] In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains and the sofa. But to me, nothing could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the fundamental soul of a man-made creation that ends up expressing itself in successive outer layers of the product or service.

    [12:05] The Essential Difference: The Lisa people wanted to do something great. And the Mac people want to do something insanely great. The difference shows.

    [14:21] Sure, what we do has to make commercial sense, but it's never the starting point. We start with the product and the user experience.

    [15:57] Becoming Steve Jobs: The Evolution of a Reckless Upstart into a Visionary Leader by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli. (Founders #19)

    [16:41] We had a passion to do this one simple thing.

    [16:51] And that's really important because he's saying I wasn't trying to build the biggest company. I wasn't trying to build a trillion dollar company. It wasn't doing any of that. Those things happen later as a by-product of what I was actually focused on, which is just building the best computer that I wanted to use.

    [17:14] In the Company of Giants: Candid Conversations With the Visionaries of the Digital World by Rama Dev Jager and Rafael Ortiz.  (Founders #208 )

    [17:41] It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you're doing. Picasso had a saying: good artists copy, great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.

    [20:29] Our belief was that if we kept putting great products in front of customers, they would continue to open their wallets.

    [21:06]  A Mind at Play: How Claude Shannon Invented the Information Age by Jimmy Soni and Rob Goodman (Founders #95) “A very small percentage of the population produces the greatest proportion of the important ideas. There are some people if you shoot one idea into the brain, you will get half an idea out. There are other people who are beyond this point at which they produce two ideas for each idea sent in.”

    [22:29] Edwin land episodes:

    Insisting On The Impossible: The Life of Edwin Land and Instant: The Story of Polaroid (Founders #40)

    The Instant Image: Edwin Land and The Polaroid Experience by Mark Olshaker. (Founders #132)

    Land’s Polaroid: A Company and The Man Who Invented It by Peter C. Wensberg. (Founders #133)

    A Triumph of Genius: Edwin Land, Polaroid, and the Kodak Patent War by Ronald K. Fierstein. (Founders #134)

    [25:01] Macintosh was basically this relatively small company in Cupertino, California, taking on the goliath, IBM, and saying "Wait a minute, your way is wrong. This is not the way we want computers to go. This is not the legacy we want to leave. This is not what we want our kids to be learning. This is wrong and we are going to show you the right way to do it and here it is and it is so much better.

    [27:47] Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Productsby Leander Kahney. (
    (Founders #178)

    [29:00] Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte (Founders #98)

    [34:39] On meeting his wife, Laurene: I was in the parking lot, with the key in the car, and I thought to myself: If this is my last night on earth, would I rather spend it at a business meeting or with this woman? I ran across the parking lot, asked her if she'd have dinner with me. She said yes, we walked into town, and we've been together ever since.

    [37:26] It's not about pop culture, and it's not about fooling people, and it's not about convincing people that they want something they don't. We figure out what we want. And I think we're pretty good at having the right discipline to think through whether a lot of other people are going to want it, too. That's what we get paid to do.

    [41:29] Constellation Software Inc. President's Letters by Mark Leonard. (Founders #246)

    [42:30] Made in Japan: Akio Morita and Sony by Akio Morita. (Founders #102)

    [44:36] Victory in our industry is spelled survival.

    [45:21] Once you get into the problem you see that it's complicated, and you come up with all these convoluted solutions. That's where most people stop, and the solutions tend to work for a while. But the really great person will keep going, find the underlying problem, and come up with an elegant solution that works on every level.

    [48:15] Churchill by Paul Johnson (Founders #225)

    [48:25] I would trade all my technology for an afternoon with Socrates.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

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    #98 Enzo Ferrari (the making of an automobile empire)

    #98 Enzo Ferrari (the making of an automobile empire)

    What I learned from reading Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte.

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    [0:01] Ferrari was animated by an extraordinary passion that led him to build a product with no equal

    [3:52] Lee Iacocca on why Enzo Ferrari will go as the greatest car manufacturer in history: "Ferrari spent every dollar chasing perfection." 

    [8:50] Business lessons from his father  

    [11:47] Enzo Ferrari was not interested in school. He wanted to start working immediately. 

    [16:36] The deaths of his father and brother 

    [18:20] No job. No money. No connections. A young man desperate to succeed in life. 

    [23:06] He learned something that he would never forget for the rest of his life: Not even the best driver had any chance of victory if he was not at the wheel of the best car

    [24:20] Starting his first business which ends in bankruptcy.

    [28:31] Enzo learned from those who already accomplished what he was trying to do. 

    [31:10] He does the best possible job at whatever task he is given. Even if he doesn't want to do it. Enzo focuses on being useful. 

    [33:35] A young Enzo Ferrari is plagued with doubts and close to a nervous breakdown. 

    [38:28] The large leave gaps for the small: The start of Scuderia Ferrari. 

    [49:38] Enzo Ferrari at 33 years old. 

    [51:30] For Enzo Ferrari it was always day 1.

    [52:33] Alfa Romeo pulls the plug/the end of Scuderia Ferrari, the birth of Ferrari.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested so my poor wallet suffers. ” — Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast

    #132 Edwin Land (Steve Jobs's Hero)

    #132 Edwin Land (Steve Jobs's Hero)

    What I learned from reading The Instant Image: Edwin Land and the Polaroid Experience by Mark Olshaker. 

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    [1:42] The word “problem” had completely departed from Edwin land's vocabulary to be replaced by the word “opportunity”. 

    [2:01] What was it about this man and his company that allowed such confidence and seeming lack of concern with the traditional top priorities of American business? 

    [2:38] There is something unique about Polaroid having to do both with the human dimension of the company, and with a unity of vision of its founder and guiding genius.  

    [3:36] Perhaps the single most important aspect of Land's character is his ability to regard things around him in a new and totally different way.  

    [4:14] Right from the beginning of his career Land had paid scant attention to what experts had to say, trusting his own instincts instead.  

    [4:49] Land has always believed that for any item sufficiently ingenious and intriguing, a new market could be created. Conventional wisdom has little capacity with which to evaluate a market that did not exist prior to the product that defines it. 

    [5:21] He feels that creativity is an individual thing. Not generally applicable to group generation. 

    [5:52] Land is a man deeply caught up in the creative potential of the individual. 

    [6:33] An institution is the lengthened shadow of one man. 

    [7:43] Apple founder Steve Jobs once hailed Edwin Land, the founder of Polaroid and the father of instant photography, as "a national treasure" and once confessed to a reporter that meeting Land was "like visiting a shrine." By his own admission, Jobs modeled much of his own career after Land’s. Both Jobs and Land stand out today as unique and towering figures in the history of technology. Neither had a college degree, but both built highly successful and innovative organizations. Jobs and Land were both perfectionists with an almost fanatic attentiveness to detail, in addition to being consummate showmen and instinctive marketers. In many ways, Edwin Land was the original Steve Jobs.  

    [8:36] There's a rule that they don't teach you at the Harvard business school. It is, if anything is worth doing it's worth doing to excess

    [11:22] Steve Jobs: I always thought of myself as a humanities person as a kid, but I liked electronics. Then I read something that one of my heroes, Edwin Land of Polaroid, said about the importance of people who could stand at the intersection of humanities and sciences. And I decided that's what I wanted to do.  

    [12:51] In a world full of cooks, Edwin Land was a chef. [Link to The Cook and The Chef: Elon Musk’s Secret Sauce]  

    [19:34] Land was asked what he wanted to be when he was younger: I had two goals. To be the world's greatest scientist and to be the world's greatest novelist. 

    [21:28] Everyone acknowledged that the future of Polaroid corporation would be determined by what went on in the brain of Edwin Land. 

    [22:01] My motto is very personal and may not fit anyone else or any other company. It is: Don't do anything that someone else can do.  

    [22:54] Fortunately our company has been one which has been dedicated throughout its life to making only things which others can not make.  

    [25:06] Land had far more faith in his own potential, and that of the company he inspired, than did any of the experts looking in from the outside.  

    [27:30] Polaroid failed to build a successful company by selling to other businesses: Each [product] would have involved millions of dollars in revenue for the company, but each invention involved a certain degree of transformation of an existing industry controlled by an existing power structure. From this Land realizes he needs to control the relationship with the customer. He realizes he needs to sell directly to the end user

    [36:16] Edwin Land is inspired by, and learned from, people that came before him. One example of this is Alexander Graham Bell. Edwin Land is not worried about the marketing [of a new product] because Bell went through the same thing: Land apparently lost little sleep over the initial situation, calling to mind that the same sort of reaction had greeted the public introduction of Bell's telephone, 70 years earlier. The telephone had been a dominant symbol in Land's thinking. He began making numerous connections between his camera and the telephone.  

    [40:16] Over the years, I have learned that every significant invention has several characteristics. By definition it must be startling, unexpected, and must come into a world that is not prepared for it. If the world were prepared for it, it would not be much of an invention.  

    [40:46] It is the public's role to resist [a new invention, a new product/service]. 

    [41:29] It took us a lifetime to understand that if we're to make a new commodity —a commodity of beauty —then we must be prepared for the extensive teaching program needed to prepare society for the magnitude of our invention

    [45:12] Only the individual— and not the large group— can see a part of the world in a totally new and different way.  

    [48:08] Land's view is that a company should be scientifically daring and financially conservative. 

    [50:30] To understand more about every aspect of light, Edwin Land read every single book on light that was available in the New York City Public Library. That reminded me of one of my favorite lectures ever: Running Down A Dream: How to Succeed and Thrive in a Career You Love

    [51:59] Land on the problem with formal education: Young people for the most part —unless they are geniuses— after a very short time in college, give up any hope of being individually great. 

    [54:16] Among all the components and Land's intellectual arsenal, the chief one seems to be simple concentration.  

    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers.”— Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book. It's good for you. It's good for Founders. A list of all the books featured on Founders Podcast.

    #245 Rick Rubin (In the Studio)

    #245 Rick Rubin (In the Studio)

    What I learned from reading Rick Rubin: In the Studio by Jake Brown.

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    Rick Rubin on Lex Fridman Podcast #275

    Rick Rubin on The Peter Attia Drive Podcast #57

    Shangri-La Documentary

    Rick’s podcast Broken Record

    [1:39] Decoded by Jay Z. (Founders #238)

    [3:19] Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

    [3:31] His goal is to record music in its most basic and purest form. No extra bells and whistles. All wheat, no chaff.

    [5:42] Dr. Land was saying: “I could see what the Polaroid camera should be. It was just as real to me as if it was sitting in front of me before I had ever built one.” And Steve said: “Yes, that’s exactly the way I saw the Macintosh.” He said if I asked someone who had only used a personal calculator what a Macintosh should be like they couldn’t have told me. There was no way to do consumer research on it so I had to go and create it and then show it to people and say now what do you think?” Both of them had this ability to not invent products, but discover products. Both of them said these products have always existed — it’s just that no one has ever seen them before. We were the ones who discovered them. The Polaroid camera always existed and the Macintosh always existed — it’s a matter of discovery.

    [7:31] My goal is to just get out of the way and let the people I'm working with be the best versions of themselves.

    [7:50] Berkshire Hathaway Letters to Shareholders 1965-2018 by Warren Buffett (Founders #88)

    [11:26] In-N-Out Burger: A Behind-the-Counter Look at the Fast-Food Chain That Breaks All the Rules by Stacy Perman. (Founders #244)

    [14:13] “Designing a product is keeping 5,000 things in your brain and fitting them all together in new and different ways.” —Steve Jobs

    [16:00] Less is more but you have to do more to get to less.

    [16:25] Against The Odds: An Autobiography by James Dyson and reading A History of Great Inventions by James Dyson. (Founders #200)

    [17:56] Rubin's most valuable quality is his own confidence.

    [20:57]  If we're going to do this, let's aim for greatness. You have to believe what you were doing is the most important thing in the world.

    [21:29] Damn Right: Behind the Scenes with Berkshire Hathaway Billionaire Charlie Munger by Janet Lowe. (Founders #221) “Everybody engaged in complicated work needs colleagues. Just the discipline of having to put your thoughts in order with somebody else is a very useful thing.”

    [24:24] On being a reducer —not a producer: Often in the studio there will be the idea to add layers to make it seem bigger. Sometimes the more things you add, the smaller it gets. A lot of it is counterintuitive. You need to discover it in practice.

    [27:10] I want to play loud. I want to be heard. And I want all to know I'm not one of the herd.

    [36:16] There were no stars in rap music. It was really just a work of passion. Everyone who was doing it was doing it because they loved it, not because anyone thought it was a career.

    [38:12] Krush Groove YouTube link

    [38:47] Russell really cared about finding new ways to expose their music to a bigger audience.

    [39:03] Bloomberg by Michael Bloomberg.  (Founders #228)

    [44:19] A handmade product at scale.

    [48:23] Rap music as recorded work was just eight years old.

    [50:06] Q: Do you have an engine of constant dissatisfaction. Self criticism that I could have done better? A: No. I’m pleased with the work that we did. Excited to keep working. It’s fun. I don’t know what else I’d do with myself. I like making things, it’s fun. I feel like it’s my reason to be on the planet so I just keep doing it. If it could be better I would have kept working on it. If it could be better it’s not done. I’ve done everything I can to make it the best it can be. I can’t do more than that so there is nothing to be critical of. It is almost like a diary entry. Everything we make is a reflection in a moment in time. Could be a day, could be a year.

    [52:54] These things that we don't understand and cannot explain happen regularly.

    [58:33] To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.

    [58:58] He's living in four different centuries at once.

    [1:01:02] I believe in you so much, I'm going to make you believe in you.

    [1:03:07] Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire by James Wallace and Jim Erickson (Founders #140)  Gates and Allen were convinced the computer industry was about to reach critical mass, and when it exploded it would usher in a technological revolution of astounding magnitude. They were on the threshold of one of those moments when history held its breath... and jumped, as it had done with the development of the car and the airplane. They could either lead the revolution or be swept along by it.

    [1:05:35] The newest sounds have a tendency to sound old when the next new sound comes along. But a grand piano sounded great 50 years ago and will sound great 50 years from now. I try to make records that have a timeless quality.

    [1:13:58] Mozart: A Life by Paul Johnson. (Founders #240)

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    “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

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