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    Anecdote in Science: The 224th Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    en-usMay 08, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Bridging the gap between lifespan and health spanConsider supplements like Momentous and Seed to boost health and bridge the gap between lifespan and health span, improving overall quality of life

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    • First recorded instance of wild animal self-medication by an orangutanA wild orangutan applied a medicinal plant to its wound, marking the first evidence of self-medication in a wild animal. The plant has bioactive properties.

      A recent study published in the scientific journal Scientific Reports documented the existence of a wild Sumatran orangutan applying a medicinal plant to its own facial wound, marking the first systematically recorded instance of active self-medication in a wild animal. The importance of this finding lies in the fact that the plant used by the orangutan has previously been identified as having bioactive properties. However, a minor error in the abstract of the study caused confusion, as it mistakenly referred to "monkeys in Madagascar" instead of "primates in Madagascar," leading some to question the accuracy of the research. This error highlights the importance of precise language and understanding of taxonomic classifications in scientific research. Despite the small error, the study provides valuable insights into the complex behaviors and capabilities of orangutans and other primates.

    • Understanding Evolutionary Relationships: Monophyletic Groups and OrangutansOrangutans are a monophyletic group, and careful observation and attention to detail are crucial in scientific research to avoid errors. Some primate species, like marmosets and tamarins, have social environments that can impact sexual maturity.

      The distinction between different groups in biology, such as primates, is not arbitrary but based on their evolutionary relationships. A monophyletic group is a collection of species that falls off the tree of life with a single cut, and this concept is crucial for understanding the relationships between various species. An intriguing example of this was found in a paper about orangutans, where authors failed to notice a simple error in the abstract, despite it being obvious to the reader. The paper discussed the intentional use of certain plants by orangutans for medicinal purposes, and the error was related to the misidentification of the age and maturity status of an observed orangutan. This mistake highlights the importance of careful observation and attention to detail in scientific research. Additionally, the paper mentioned that in some primate species, such as marmosets and tamarins, the social environment can influence the timing of sexual maturity, as males may delay maturation if they face high risks of aggression from dominant males. Overall, this discussion emphasizes the importance of a deep understanding of evolutionary relationships and the significance of careful observation in scientific research.

    • Communication between dominant and subordinate females in primate societiesDominant females in primate societies suppress subordinate females' reproductive capacity through unknown communication methods, allowing them to inherit the troop instead.

      In certain primate societies, the dominant female suppresses the reproductive capacity of subordinate females through some form of communication. This is a common phenomenon among primates, particularly among great apes like chimpanzees. The mechanism behind this communication is not well understood but is believed to involve chemical signals and receptors. The subordinate females are in a difficult position as they face challenges in starting their own troop and raising offspring, so they often choose to wait and inherit a troop instead. This system, while complex, provides insight into the interplay between evolution and sociality. It's important to note that this phenomenon is not unique to humans and can be observed in various animal species. Unfortunately, many analyses of human behavior overlook this by making assumptions that only humans exhibit certain behaviors.

    • Human evolution and relationships with chimpanzees and bonobosDespite common assumptions, humans do not have a closer relationship to either chimpanzees or bonobos, as both diverged after our lineage split. Their varying social structures and behaviors make direct comparisons misleading. Orangutans' use of plants for self-medication is observed but not yet well-documented as ethnobotanical practices.

      The relationship between humans and our closest living relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos, is more complex than often assumed. Contrary to popular belief, we cannot definitively label humans as more closely related to one species over the other. Both chimpanzees and bonobos diverged from our common ancestor after our lineage had already split. Furthermore, both species exhibit varying social structures and behaviors, making direct comparisons misleading. Additionally, the notion that orangutans are ethnobotanists, using plants for self-medication, has been observed but remains limited in scope. The evidence suggests that orangutans selectively consume certain plants, but their use for medicinal purposes is not yet well-documented. These findings challenge simplistic interpretations of human evolution and behavior based on our closest living relatives. Instead, they highlight the importance of understanding the complexity and diversity within primate species and the role of culture and flexibility in shaping their social structures and behaviors.

    • Orangutans and Traditional Healers Use Same Plants for Wound HealingOrangutans and traditional healers in Central Kalimantan use the same plants for wound healing, with orangutans applying leaf juices to create a poultice that keeps flies away and accelerates healing, potentially inherited from our last common ancestor.

      Traditional healers in Central Kalimantan use the same plants as orangutans for medicinal purposes, specifically for wound healing. Orangutans have been observed applying the leaf juices of certain plants to their wounds, creating a poultice that keeps flies away and accelerates healing. This behavior is consistent with the hypothesis that great apes engage in self-medication. The researchers suggest that this behavior may have been inherited from our last common ancestor. However, it's also plausible that orangutans learned this behavior from observing humans or that humans learned it from observing orangutans. The existence of self-medication in great apes provides new insights into the evolutionary origins of wound medication. The discovery of active wound management with a biological active substance in great ape species is the first of its kind and may be a universal behavior among humans and our closest relatives.

    • Primates Discover Medicinal Plants Through Observational Learning and Independent DiscoveryPrimates, such as capuchin monkeys, have discovered medicinal plants in their environments through observational learning and independent discovery, utilizing them for wound treatment and survival.

      The use of natural medicines by primates, including humans, is not a new concept. Primates, such as capuchin monkeys, have been observed applying salves or using plants for wound treatment. This behavior is likely due to observational learning and the abundance of medicinal plants in their environments. Tropical forests are filled with potential medicines as plants produce chemicals to defend themselves from being consumed by animals. Primates, being problem solvers, have likely discovered the medicinal properties of these plants for their own benefit. The use of natural medicines is an independent occurrence that has been happening for thousands of years. The forest is a rich source of medicines, and primates, as wide foragers, have likely discovered their healing properties. The discovery of medicinal plants through observational learning and independent discovery has been a crucial aspect of survival for primates, including humans.

    • Animals' natural curiosity and behavioral flexibility led to the discovery of medicinal plantsAnimals, including our ancestors and various species, have a history of discovering medicinal properties of plants through their curiosity and problem-solving skills.

      Animals, including our ancestors and even modern primates, have a natural curiosity and behavioral flexibility that likely led them to discover the medicinal properties of plants multiple times throughout history. This discovery was not limited to humans or great apes, but was a common occurrence across various species. The use of plants for medicinal purposes may have predated the split of all great ape species, or it may have been an independent discovery in each lineage. Regarding the specific example of thorny plants, the ability to recognize their potential benefits, despite the initial discomfort, demonstrates the intelligence and problem-solving skills of animals. Additionally, animals, such as dogs, may use strong smells to mask their own scent while hunting, which could explain their tendency to roll in unpleasant substances. Overall, the natural curiosity and adaptability of animals have played a significant role in the discovery and utilization of various resources, including medicinal plants, throughout history.

    • Foxes' Hunting Behavior and DomesticationFoxes, though not closely related to wolves, have exhibited similar phenotypic changes during domestication, despite not being specialized hunters. Their behavior towards humans might have been selected instead.

      Wolves, the ancestors of domesticated dogs, were not specialized hunters, and their behavioral traits, such as hunting birds, might have been inherited by breeds that have arisen in the last 30,000 years. However, the loss of this behavior might be slow and not intentional, as humans did not favor this trait in their hunting dogs. Foxes, which are not closely related to wolves, have been domesticated and exhibit similar phenotypic changes when selected to be friendly towards humans. The Russians experimented with both domesticating and monstrously selecting foxes in the mid-20th century. During dinner last night, the speaker observed a red fox considering hunting quail, displaying a half-hearted, facultative behavior. Foxes, which are Vulpes Vulpes, have different morphs, including red and black, and all have a white tail tip. The speaker has seen wild fox puppies emerge from their dens around the end of April. This year, they have not yet seen any, but they have a picture of a baby fox learning how to be a fox around its den.

    • Understanding the past for the present and futureLong-term data from natural history collections is crucial for detecting significant shifts in ecosystems and irreplaceable sources of information for future generations.

      The natural world is full of complex and variable systems where patterns can change unexpectedly, and long-term data is crucial for understanding normalcy and detecting significant shifts. The example given was about fox dens that appeared contiguous but were vacant one year and teeming with life the next. Similarly, the disappearance of sea stars from the West Coast was a profound change with limited comparative data due to the lack of baseline information. Natural history collections in museums are invaluable sources of historical data, but they are increasingly being marginalized and overlooked. These collections provide essential longitudinal data that can help us understand if we're altering ecosystems and are irreplaceable sources of information for future generations. While it's essential to appreciate the present, it's equally important to learn from the past.

    • Insights from human-animal encountersAnecdotes about human-animal interactions can spark scientific curiosity and provide valuable insights, even if they don't meet strict experimental standards.

      The encounter between humans and animals, as depicted in videos and anecdotes, can provide valuable insights into their thought processes and intelligence, even if these observations may not hold fundamental scientific significance. The line between anecdote and data can be blurred, but anecdotes should not be dismissed outright as they serve as the foundation for scientific inquiry. The fascination with these observations highlights our curiosity about the minds of other creatures and their unique ways of understanding the world. The scientific community's emphasis on controlled experiments should not overshadow the importance of anecdotal evidence and the role it plays in our ongoing exploration of the natural world.

    • Unexpected maternal instincts in neutered male catsNeutered male cats can exhibit strong maternal instincts, likely due to genetic and instinctual factors, and may have been preserved through selective breeding.

      Cats, despite being males and not related to the kittens, can exhibit strong maternal instincts. This instinct, which is likely genetically determined and instinctive in nature, can manifest in unexpected ways due to the flexibility and intelligence of cats as mammals. The observation of a neutered male cat taking on the role of a mother to two new kittens was surprising, but not unheard of. This behavior may have been preserved through selective breeding, as cats that could be trusted around babies were more likely to survive and pass on their genes. The comparison to dogs, which have been domesticated for a longer period of time and have a more pronounced protective instinct, highlights the unique characteristics of cats and their ability to adapt to various environments. While it's impossible to know for certain why this particular cat exhibited maternal behavior, it's a reminder of the complex and fascinating nature of these animals.

    • The social structures of dogs and cats influenced their domesticationDogs, as social animals, were likely domesticated as partners or helpers to humans over long periods. Cats, being more solitary, may have been domesticated more recently by humans taking on the role of caregiver. Domesticated cats exhibit infantile behaviors, while wild cats do not.

      The domestication of dogs and cats may have been influenced by their social structures. Dogs, being social animals, were likely domesticated over long periods of time as partners or helpers to humans, while cats, being more solitary animals, may have been domesticated more recently by humans taking on the role of caregiver. Evidence suggests that domesticated cats continue to exhibit behaviors associated with infancy, such as purring, while wild cats do not. As for the domestication of dogs, theories range from humans stealing puppies to wolves hanging around human settlements for food. However, the latter theory is less likely due to the wild nature of wolves and the limited resources humans had at the time. Ultimately, the social dynamics between humans and these animals played a significant role in their domestication.

    • The complex process of wolf domesticationThe commensal scavenger hypothesis suggests wolves became domesticated due to their usefulness in protecting humans, but some argue a tacit agreement between wolves and humans could have led to hand raising and bonding.

      The process of wolf domestication, leading to the development of dogs, is a complex issue with various hypotheses suggesting different reasons for the initial interaction between wolves and humans. The commensal scavenger hypothesis suggests that wolves became domesticated due to their usefulness in protecting humans from larger predators, as they would be attracted to human camps for food scraps. However, some argue that this hypothesis does not make sense due to the potential danger wolves pose to humans. Instead, it is suggested that a tacit agreement between wolves and humans could have emerged, with both recognizing an advantage. This could have led to hand raising wolves and the development of a bond between the two species. The evidence for this includes historical accounts of humans providing for wolves and even prohibitions against wasting resources in certain cultures. Ultimately, it is unclear which hypothesis is correct, but it is possible that a combination of factors contributed to the domestication of wolves. The key question is whether there was anything that wolves could eat that humans couldn't, and if there was, this could have provided an incentive for humans to allow wolves to stick around. However, there is limited evidence to suggest that humans would have intentionally set aside food for wolves or taken in wolf puppies to help bring in more food.

    • Article title doesn't reflect a shift in vaccine narrativeThe NYT article focuses on individuals who believe they were harmed by COVID vaccines but does not challenge the narrative that vaccines are generally safe and effective.

      A recent New York Times article with the title "1000 Believe COVID Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?" does not represent a shift in the public narrative towards acknowledging vaccine injuries. Instead, it engages with the issue using a different tone while continuing to sell the same narrative that vaccines are generally safe and effective. The article's title, which focuses on the number of people who believe they were harmed by the vaccines, is not an admission of injury, as the number of vaccinated individuals is much larger. The article's focus on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which uses a different technology, and the downplaying of the potential harm caused by mRNA vaccines, which have multiple design defects and can cause arbitrary destruction of tissues, highlights the selective bias in the narrative. The mRNA shots' persisting effects in the body and the immune system's response to the production of foreign proteins in cells can lead to a wide range of pathologies. The New York Times' article does not challenge this hypothesis or provide new information on the issue.

    • Misleading reporting on COVID-19 vaccine safetyThe use of 'safely' in vaccine safety discussions can be misleading, as it implies no harm rather than no risk. Millions may have experienced subclinical pathologies or not reported symptoms, and acknowledging injuries while maintaining a positive tone may overlook true risks.

      The reporting and communication around COVID-19 vaccine safety have been misleading. The VAERS database, intended for intense safety monitoring, was ignored when a massive safety signal emerged. Officials maintained that serious side effects were rare, but the definition of "safely" received a new meaning, implying no harm rather than no risk. However, the reality is that millions of people may have experienced subclinical pathologies or chose not to report their symptoms. The use of the term "safely" in this context is a sleight of hand, and it's crucial to recognize that taking a vaccine involves taking a risk, even if the majority of people may not experience severe harm. The media's attempt to change the narrative and regain control of the story by acknowledging injuries while maintaining the overall positive tone about the vaccines is a concern, as it may give a false sense of security and overlook the importance of understanding the true risks involved.

    • Perceived inconsistencies and misinformation in COVID-19 response reportingSpeaker expresses disappointment in author Apoorva Mandeville's article, questioning its accuracy and calling for transparency in COVID-19 response reporting. Criticizes The Nation for perceived lack of truthfulness and muckraking, and calls for accountability for harms caused by vaccines, lockdowns, masks, and closures.

      The discussion revolves around the perceived inadequacy and potential misinformation in an article regarding COVID-19 response, specifically in relation to certain officials and drugs. The speaker expresses disappointment in the article's author, Apoorva Mandeville, for what they see as inconsistencies and misdirection. They also mention the revision of various COVID-related stories, including the lab leak origin theory and the effectiveness of certain drugs like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. The speaker suggests that those responsible for the COVID response are trying to control the narrative and dodge accountability for various harms caused by their actions, including vaccines, lockdowns, masks, and closures. The Nation, a publication mentioned in the discussion, is criticized for its handling of the COVID story and its perceived lack of truthfulness and muckraking. The speaker calls for a more transparent and truthful approach to reporting on the pandemic and its aftermath.

    • Misunderstandings and Concerns Surrounding Society's Response to COVID-19Despite effective vaccines, ongoing COVID-19 policies raise concerns for some, with potential negative consequences for young people, and a call for caution, critical thinking, and a focus on well-being.

      The ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic continues to be felt, with long-term effects on individuals and businesses. The speaker expresses shock and disappointment at what they perceive as mischaracterizations and misunderstandings regarding society's response to the pandemic, including lockdowns and vaccines. They lament the loss of trust in once-trusted sources of information and express concern over ongoing mandates, particularly in educational institutions. Despite the evolving nature of the virus and the availability of effective vaccines, the speaker questions the rationality of certain policies and their potential negative consequences for young people. Overall, the speaker urges caution, critical thinking, and a focus on well-being in the face of ongoing uncertainty.

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    Join us on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.com/

    Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com

    Our book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, is available everywhere books are sold, including from Amazon: https://a.co/d/dunx3at

    Check out our store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://darkhorsestore.org

    *****

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Laumer et al 2024. Active self-treatment of a facial wound with a biologically active plant by a male Sumatran orangutan. Scientific Reports, 14(1), p.8932. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-58988-7

    County Highway: https://www.countyhighway.com

    Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening? https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/health/covid-vaccines-side-effects.html

    Chris Martenson on the NYT: https://twitter.com/chrismartenson/status/1787602191114526836

    Benn et al 2023. Randomized clinical trials of COVID-19 vaccines: Do adenovirus-vector vaccines have beneficial non-specific effects?. Iscience, 26(5): https://portal.findresearcher.sdu.dk/en/publications/randomized-clinical-trials-of-covid-19-vaccines-do-adenovirus-vec

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    Never Alone: The 223rd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    Never Alone: The 223rd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    In this 223rd in a series of live discussions with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying (both PhDs in Biology), we talk about the state of the world through an evolutionary lens.

    In this episode, we discuss science and religion, materialism and other ways of understanding our world. Can analysis and quantification explain everything? Can narrative, intuition, and creativity? All are or should be part of the scientific process; science is incomplete with only one mode. We also discuss models, how they fail, how difficult they are to assess, and what one recent climate model has to say about the role of air pollution in Earth’s temperature. Enlightenment values require that we use our freedom to inquire about all things that we are curious about. Also: happy Beltane!

    *****

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    Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com

    Our book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, is available everywhere books are sold, including from Amazon: https://a.co/d/dunx3at

    Check out our store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://darkhorsestore.org

    *****

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Third Man Syndrome and Shackleton: https://twitter.com/brianroemmele/status/1785827941718614291

    Clearer skies may be accelerating global warming: https://www.science.org/content/article/clearer-skies-may-be-accelerating-global-warming
     
    Hodnebrog et al 2024. Recent reductions in aerosol emissions have increased Earth’s energy imbalance. Communications Earth & Environment, 5(1):166: https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-024-01324-8

    Nature editorial: What happens when climate change and the mental-health crisis collide? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00993-x

    Animation about mental health and climate change: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/grantham/publications/all-publications/the-impact-of-climate-change-on-mental-health-and-emotional-wellbeing-current-evidence-and-implications-for-policy-and-practice.php

    Growing up is hard to do (do not pay others to do your thinking for you): https://naturalselections.substack.com/p/growing-up-is-hard-to-do

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    We're Beating the WHO – With Dr. Kat Lindley

    We're Beating the WHO – With Dr. Kat Lindley

    Dr. Kat Lindley is the President of the Global Health Project. Bret Talks to her about the state of the World Health Organization Pandemic Treaty.

    Find Dr. Lindley on X: @KLVeritas (https://twitter.com/KLVeritas)

    *****

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    Please subscribe to this channel for more long form content like this, and subscribe to the clips channel @DarkHorse Podcast Clips for short clips of all our podcasts. 

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    Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.

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    Why Darwin was Right: The 222nd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    Why Darwin was Right: The 222nd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    In this 222nd in a series of live discussions with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying (both PhDs in Biology), we talk about the state of the world through an evolutionary lens.

    In this episode, we discuss evolution, and how we know that it is true. We discuss the different kinds of beliefs that people have—beliefs that attempt to reconcile with reality, vs beliefs that reconcile with social standing and comfort. If your beliefs put you on the outs with your friends, do you change your beliefs, or your friends? Are you willing to give up the cocktail party for reality? We also discuss research published in 2000 and funded by Fauci’s NIAID, which demonstrated that it was possible to make chimeric coronaviruses, swapping the spike protein from one to a different species entirely. Finally: sex-biased gene expression, in which genes are expressed differently in the two sexes, in anatomical systems as varied as brain, kidneys, and liver.
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    *****

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    Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com

    Our book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, is available everywhere books are sold, including from Amazon: https://a.co/d/dunx3at

    Check out our store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://darkhorsestore.org

    *****

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Kennedy 2023. The Wuhan Cover-Up and the Terrifying Bio-Weapons Arms Race: https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510773981/the-wuhan-cover-up/

    Kuo et al 2000. Retargeting of coronavirus by substitution of the spike glycoprotein ectodomain: crossing the host cell species barrier. Journal of virology, 74(3):1393-1406: https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/jvi.74.3.1393-1406.2000

    Rodríguez-Montes et al 2023. Sex-biased gene expression across mammalian organ development and evolution. Science 382(6670), p.eadf1046: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adf1046

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