Podcast Summary
Discussing science and biology with exclusive sponsors: Stay informed and engaged with science and biology through exclusive content and tools like Mudwater and Listening.com
During this episode of the Dark Horse podcast, Brett Weinstein and Heather Heying discussed various topics in science and biology. They encouraged listeners to join their watch party on Locals for access to exclusive content. Their first sponsor was Mudwater, a company that produces a spicy and delicious drink made with adaptogenic mushrooms and Ayurvedic herbs, providing energy without the jitters or crash of coffee. Their second sponsor was Listening.com, a platform providing access to written material in audio format, making it easier for people to consume information on the go. The hosts emphasized the importance of staying informed and encouraged their audience to engage with their content on Locals. They also mentioned a story they had learned about in a private Q&A session, which they planned to discuss further in the episode. Overall, the podcast offered valuable insights on science, encouraged engagement with their community, and provided useful tools for staying informed.
Explore Listening.com for alternative format access to academic and scientific materials: Listening.com offers a realistic listening experience, note-taking function, and versatility between listening and reading modes for accessing academic and scientific materials
Listening.com is a valuable tool for accessing academic and scientific materials in an alternative format, allowing users to listen to papers, books, PDFs, web pages, and articles, even when they can't read traditionally. The platform offers a realistic listening experience with lifelike AI voices, capable of pronouncing complex technical terms, and includes a one-click note-taking function. Additionally, users can switch between listening and reading modes, making it a versatile solution for absorbing information. The company also offers a free trial, with an extended period for Dark Horse listeners. Another interesting discussion point involved the importance of pronunciation and the flexibility to adopt preferred terms, such as "jacanas" versus "chicanas." Lastly, the sponsor segment introduced Moink, a meat subscription company dedicated to delivering high-quality, humanely raised meat to consumers while supporting small farms and independent fishermen. The company's commitment to ethical farming practices and the superior taste of its products make it a compelling choice for those seeking top-quality meat.
Speakers' personal traits and genetics: Speakers discussed new patents for polyploid hybrid potato and maize breeding, raising questions about genome coherence and investment in offspring with non-own genes.
During a recent private Q&A session, it was revealed that the speakers have personal traits that make it challenging for them to live with others, including themselves. This is a common human experience, but the implications of this for a discussion on genetics and breeding are profound. The speakers discussed new patents assigned to Ohalo Genetics Incorporated for polyploid hybrid potato and maize breeding. Polyploidy refers to the presence of more than two sets of chromosomes in an organism's cells. These patents propose a breeding system using cycles of meiosis, syngamy, and selection, resulting in sexual polyploidization during hybrid production. The speakers noted that for an adult creature to divide its genome in half and fuse it with another's raises the question of why an organism would invest resources in producing offspring with genes that are not its own. This theme of genome coherence and the implications of sexual reproduction will be further explored in the discussion on these new patents. However, it's important to note that the patents have not yet been granted, and the complete information has not been obtained.
The Cost of Sex: Why Females Invest in Half Genomes: Females invest in producing offspring with only 50% of their genes through sexual reproduction, incurring a cost due to the large investment in producing eggs and the risk of combining with a less fit genome, but this strategy is adaptive in variable environments as it introduces diversity.
The existence of sexual reproduction and males in particular, is a paradox in evolutionary biology. The twofold cost of sex refers to the fact that females invest in producing offspring with only 50% of their genes, instead of cloning themselves and producing offspring with 100% of their genes. This is due to the fact that female gametes (eggs) are large and contain all the necessary cellular machinery, while male gametes (sperm) are small and only contain chromosomes. Males don't exist in asexually reproducing organisms as they lack the necessary cellular machinery. The willingness of females to invest in a half genome that isn't theirs is the cost of sex. Additionally, the coherence question arises as to why females would risk combining their genome with another, potentially less fit genome, instead of asexually reproducing. The answer is that sexual reproduction is adaptive in variable and unpredictable environments as it introduces diversity, which pays off in the long run. However, it's important to note that the environment in which offspring will live needs to be significantly different from the environment of the parent for the gamble of sexual reproduction to make sense. Overall, the existence of males and sexual reproduction is a long-standing paradox in evolutionary biology.
Creating 100% related offspring in plants through boosted breeding: Hologenetics is pioneering a new breeding technique for potatoes and corn, called boosted breeding, which results in 100% related offspring with increased yield and vigor through creating polyploid plants carrying both parents' genetic material.
Hologenetics is pioneering a new breeding technique called "boosted breeding" for potatoes and corn, which involves creating polyploid plants that carry the entire genetic complement of both parents. This method, unlike traditional breeding where each parent contributes half of their genetic material to the offspring, results in a 100% related offspring with increased yield and vigor. However, it's important to note that this technique is rare in animals and has never been observed in mammals, and when it does occur, it's often catastrophic. In plants, polyploidy occurs more frequently, and Hologenetics is using it to create new, more productive potato and corn varieties. The company's method involves selecting candidate lines, creating clonal gametes by arresting meiotic recombination and chromosome reduction, and then crossing these lines to produce homogeneous populations of hybrid polyploid seed. The implication of this technique is that it could potentially double yields on crops. However, the costs and potential challenges of implementing this technology are yet to be fully explored.
No free lunch in agriculture: Achieving greater yields in agriculture comes at a cost, requiring more inputs rather than less
There is no such thing as a free lunch in agriculture. While it may be possible to borrow from the natural resilience of plants to increase yields, this comes with the assumption that humans will continue to have control over the system. However, the reality is that our soils have been depleted over the last century, making it necessary to add more nutrients in the form of agrochemicals to achieve greater yields. Even the so-called "super crops" currently grown are inferior to their wild counterparts and require ideal conditions, compromising their robustness, ability to withstand environmental stressors, nutritional value, and flavor. Ultimately, producing more yield will require more inputs, not less.
Modern agriculture's reliance on polyploidy for larger, more productive plants: Over 35% of agricultural plants are polyploids, relying on genetic manipulation for existence, but long-term sustainability and risks of over-reliance remain concerns
Modern agriculture, much like a knight in heavy armor, relies on external inputs and manipulation to thrive, but just like the knight, it becomes vulnerable when those inputs are removed. One such input is the use of polyploidy, or the doubling of chromosomes, to create larger, more productive plants. While this phenomenon occurs naturally, modern agriculture heavily relies on it to increase yields. A study published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences estimated that over 35% of plant species, particularly among certain lineages, are the result of polyploid speciation. This means that a significant number of plants in agriculture depend on this genetic manipulation to exist. However, it's important to note that this does not mean that polyploid species are inherently better at diversifying or speciating once they've undergone this process. Instead, it's a crucial step in their evolution. This reliance on external inputs and genetic manipulation raises questions about the long-term sustainability of modern agriculture and the potential risks of relying too heavily on these techniques.
Polyploidy and new species formation: Polyploidy, or chromosome doubling, can lead to new species, but its impact on yields and frequency is not fully understood. Plants are efficient at resource capture and offspring production, but polyploidy comes with trade-offs. Polyploidy occurs in animals, including frogs, and climate conditions may influence its distribution.
Polyploidy, or the doubling of chromosomes, can lead to new species formation in both plants and animals, challenging our understanding of what a species is and how it comes about. However, it's unlikely that polyploid individuals find each other frequently in nature, and the assumption that polyploid events would instantly double yields for plants is incorrect. Plants are highly efficient at capturing resources and producing offspring, so there must be trade-offs to polyploidy that are not yet fully understood. Contrary to what was suggested in the discussion, polyploidy does occur in animals, including frogs, and researchers are studying how climate conditions may influence the distribution and establishment of these polyploid populations. Overall, the complexities of polyploidy and its role in speciation highlight the intricacies of evolution and the ongoing discoveries in the field of genetics.
The adaptiveness and success of polyploidy events in frogs depend on reproductive strategies and environmental conditions: Polyploidy events may be more common and successful in species with large populations and reproductive strategies that produce numerous offspring, while harsher environmental conditions may also favor polyploidy in certain species
The adaptiveness and success of polyploidy events in animal species, particularly in frogs, may depend on the reproductive strategies and environmental conditions of the species. According to a study by Otto et al. (2007), tetraploid frogs tend to inhabit areas with harsher climates, where diploid frogs struggle, suggesting that polyploidy may provide an advantage in these conditions. However, my prediction, based on the discussion, is that heavily selected species, which produce large numbers of offspring, are more likely to experience polyploidy events due to the increased chances of one successful offspring arising from the large population. This is in contrast to species with fewer offspring, where the chances of a successful polyploidy event are much lower. The results of the Otto et al. study support this idea, as tetraploid frogs were found to occupy areas where they could potentially extend their niches and compete better against diploid species. Overall, the discussion highlights the importance of considering both the reproductive strategies and environmental conditions when studying the adaptiveness and success of polyploidy events in animal species.
Tetraploid species thrive in harsh conditions but face disadvantages in competition: Study shows tetraploid species have advantages in tough environments but disadvantages in competition. This discovery could lead to genetically uniform seeds for crops, increasing yields and affordability, but maintaining genetic variation is crucial to avoid susceptibility to diseases.
The study of Otto et al. (2007) reveals that tetraploid species, which are more robust to harsh environmental conditions, have a disadvantage in direct competition with their diploid counterparts but thrive when facing abiotic challenges. This research offers a possible explanation for the persistence of polyploidy in certain species, even though it doesn't provide insights into its origin. Furthermore, this discovery could lead to the creation of uniform, genetically identical seeds for major crops, which could potentially increase yields and make food production more affordable. However, it's important to note that in a dynamic world, the absence of genetic variation could lead to increased susceptibility to diseases and pathogens. Therefore, striking a balance between uniformity and variability in agriculture remains a crucial consideration.
Continuation of past mistakes in agriculture: Uniformity in agriculture can lead to vulnerability and the need for harmful inputs, while heirloom varietals and seed saving offer natural resilience and sustainability.
The push towards uniformity and perfect seeds in agriculture, as exemplified by the potential shift towards cloned potatoes, is a continuation of past mistakes in monocropping. This approach lacks diversity and can lead to entire fields being vulnerable to disease or pests. The natural resilience and variability found in heirloom varietals and seed saving are valued alternatives. Furthermore, growing potatoes from seed requires the use of herbicides and fertilizers to suppress competition and provide necessary nutrients, as opposed to the built-in resources in traditional potato farming. The hidden costs and harms of industrial agriculture become more apparent when compared to these more sustainable practices.
The Complexities of Finding the Best Potatoes: The best potatoes depend on specific growing conditions, but the seed industry offers temporary solutions through genetic markers and epigenetics research.
The best potatoes depend on specific climatic, weather, and soil conditions, making a universal best potato impossible. However, the seed industry aims to sell seeds for high-yielding crops regardless of location, creating a temporary solution by correcting for the negative effects of technologically intensive agriculture. The use of genetic markers to identify desirable traits and combine them into crops is a promising approach, but the challenge lies in ensuring that these traits are expressed in the resulting plant. The science of epigenetics, which deals with the expression of genes, is still young and requires empirical research to answer this question fully. The industry's goal is to turn farmers into addicts for their seed catalogs and other products, but farmers, who intimately know their crops, may not be interested in this scenario. Overall, the story highlights the complexities of agriculture and the ongoing quest to unlock nature's potential while addressing the challenges of specific growing conditions.
Creating new plant species through tetraploidization: Complex and uncertain: The creation of new plant species through tetraploidization is a complex process with uncertain outcomes, relying on epigenetics to solve potential chaos and considered a brute force solution from an evolutionary perspective, with concerns about accuracy and usefulness due to lack of deep biological knowledge among key personnel.
The creation of new plant species through tetraploidization, while holding the potential for larger and better plants, is a complex process with uncertain outcomes. The interaction of existing systems from the parental genomes and their decision of primacy is not well understood. The reliance on epigenetics to solve potential chaos is a gamble. This approach, while not without utility, is considered a brute force solution and not an elegant one from an evolutionary perspective. The lack of deep biological knowledge among the key personnel involved in the company raises concerns about the accuracy and usefulness of their technology. The market's demand for quick solutions and high yields may influence the success of this technology more than its actual accuracy or usefulness.
Considering the costs and trade-offs of genetic modifications: Genetic modifications can lead to significant benefits, but it's essential to consider potential costs and trade-offs. Dynamic models are needed to account for the complexity of the world.
While genetic modifications can lead to significant changes in organisms, such as increased lifespan, it's essential to consider the potential costs and trade-offs. Using the example of C. elegance, a genetic modification that doubled its lifespan came at the cost of losing famine tolerance. In the market, such discoveries may be oversimplified and presented as a way to double human lifespan, but the reality is more complex. Furthermore, adding more genes together can lead to the creation of gene networks, making organisms healthier and more robust. This concept is similar to hybrid vigor, where organisms with diverse genetic backgrounds are often healthier than their purebred counterparts. However, it's important to remember that there are trade-offs when it comes to genetic diversity. Selecting for one trait may come at the cost of sacrificing others. Moreover, it's crucial to remember that the world is dynamic, and models that are static and don't account for this will not be effective. The field of quantitative genomics is working on predicting the best crosses to make based on gene statistics, but it's essential to remember that there will always be trade-offs. In summary, while genetic modifications and the understanding of complex systems can lead to significant advancements, it's crucial to consider the potential costs and trade-offs. The world is dynamic, and models must account for this to be effective.
Mitigating the negative effects of selective breeding through hybrid vigor: Hybrid vigor can help mitigate the negative effects of extreme selective breeding, but a focus on sustainable practices and long-term consequences is necessary for a more realistic vision of food production.
While selective breeding can lead to improvements in certain traits, it can also result in unintended consequences and harm. The concept of hybrid vigor suggests that by breeding together animals or plants with different defects, the negative effects of extreme selective breeding can be mitigated. However, the pursuit of instantaneous improvement through genetic manipulation, as seen in techno-liberalism, can lead to a parasitic cycle of creating and then trying to solve new problems. The idealized vision of a utopian world where everyone is fed and the environment is pristine is not realistic. Instead, we should focus on rethinking the basics of how we produce food sustainably and with consideration for the long-term consequences. The discovery of new technologies in agriculture should be seen as an opportunity to move towards more sustainable practices, not a promise of a perfect world with no trade-offs.
Unclear implications of boosted breeding: The lack of transparency and narrow expertise of the leadership team raises concerns about potential risks and benefits of this technology in agriculture and the environment.
The utility and implications of boosted breeding, as presented by this particular company, are unclear and potentially alarming. While the tagline "accelerating evolution to unlock nature's potential" sounds promising, the lack of transparency about potential trade-offs and the narrow expertise of the leadership team raises concerns. The company's focus on genetically uniform true seeds and vastly improved processes for consumers may not align with the realities of farming and agriculture. Furthermore, the CEO's background in astrophysics and the CTO's specialization in plant breeding genetics, while relevant to some extent, may not provide a comprehensive understanding of the complex biological systems involved. The absence of expertise in complex systems and biology among the leadership team raises questions about the potential risks and benefits of this technology. It's important to approach such developments with a critical and informed perspective, recognizing that the potential impact on agriculture and the environment could be significant.
Division between biology fields hinders understanding of bigger picture: The lack of interdisciplinary collaboration and market influence can lead to oversimplification and potentially harmful consequences in biology and biotech.
The lack of interdisciplinary collaboration and wisdom from various levels of analysis in biology and biotech is creating a dangerous world where industry has too much influence over what we believe to be true. The speaker laments the division between cellular molecular and evolution and ecology people in academia, which has resulted in a lack of consideration of the bigger picture and the impact of modifications or chemical inputs to agriculture. The market's influence over what is considered true is a concern, as it should have no influence on scientific truth. The speaker also notes that there is more opportunity for profit in "skin in" biology, leading to more investment and attention in that area, while "skin out" biology, such as evolution, ecology, and organismal biology, is often overlooked and underfunded. The lack of consideration of trade-offs and complex systems in these fields can lead to oversimplification and potentially harmful consequences.
Terrence Howard's Alternative Perspective on Gravity: Despite controversy, questioning established beliefs and considering alternative perspectives is essential for scientific progress.
Terrence Howard, in an interview on the Joe Rogan podcast, presented an alternative perspective on the nature of science and technology, specifically regarding the concept of gravity. He claimed that what we perceive as gravity is actually the result of an electric field generated by the Earth's rotation. Howard also discussed his past experiences with companies using his patents without compensating him, leading to a multibillion-dollar profit for them. The discussion raised questions about Howard's scientific insights and the validity of his theories. Some viewed him as a brilliant visionary, while others considered him delusional or performing a con. Ultimately, the conversation highlighted the importance of questioning established beliefs and considering alternative perspectives, even if they seem far-fetched or difficult to understand.
Evaluating the Legitimacy of Claims: Approach claims with a critical mindset, question the context and validity of evidence, and don't blindly accept information.
While some individuals may claim to have groundbreaking ideas or knowledge, it's crucial to approach their claims with a critical mindset. During a conversation on a podcast, the speaker expressed admiration for a guest who presents himself as a polymath, but also acknowledged the challenges of evaluating his legitimacy. The guest in question uses patents as evidence of his expertise, but the speaker pointed out that some of these patents have been abandoned. The speaker suggested that companies may cite abandoned patents to clarify their own patent positions, rather than indicating endorsement of the abandoned patent's content. In essence, it's important to understand the context behind claims and not to blindly accept information without questioning its validity.
Evaluating Claims through the Scientific Method: To assess the validity of claims, apply the scientific method by making predictions and testing them against existing theories. A lack of testable predictions or a poor track record means the claims remain speculative.
While a person's claims, even if they seem revolutionary or contravene established knowledge, should not be dismissed outright, they must be evaluated based on the scientific method. This involves making predictions that can be tested and comparing them to existing theories. The absence of predictions or a track record of making accurate ones means that the claims remain in the realm of ideas or hypotheses, not theories. It's important to remember that the patent system is not infallible and having many patents does not automatically prove the validity of one's claims. The proper way to address such claims is to apply the scientific method and encourage the person to make testable predictions. Ben Davidson, for example, is taken more seriously because he has made predictions that have come true, even if they seem far-fetched. The rules of science have been proven effective for centuries, and it's not the time to abandon them in favor of untested ideas.
Stay Informed with Science: In the age of misinformation, relying on evidence-based knowledge and scientific inquiry is crucial. Be wary of AI-generated falsehoods and engage with the Dark Horse community for factual information.
In the face of increasing uncertainty and the proliferation of misinformation, it's more important than ever to rely on evidence-based knowledge and scientific inquiry. The speaker warns of the impending threat of artificial intelligence being used to spread false information, which could further erode our ability to distinguish truth from fiction. The antidote to this enhanced science fiction, as the speaker suggests, is more and better science. To stay informed and engage in meaningful discussions, consider joining the Dark Horse community on Locals or visiting their merchandise store at darkhorsestore.org. Remember, critical thinking and factual knowledge are essential tools in navigating the complexities of our world.
Expressing gratitude and encouraging a great summer: The Dark Horse Podcast team thanks their audience for their support and encourages everyone to enjoy the summer by being good to loved ones, eating well, and getting outside. They will be releasing clips on Twitter and will return early next week due to travel.
The Dark Horse Podcast team expresses their gratitude to their audience for their support and encourages everyone to enjoy the summer by being good to loved ones, eating well, and getting outside. They will be releasing clips on Twitter under the handle @DarkHorsePod, and will return a day early next Tuesday due to travel. The team reminds listeners that they are appreciated for their engagement and shares, and encourages everyone to continue supporting the podcast. They also emphasize the importance of enjoying the beautiful weather and taking care of oneself during the summer months. The team will be back in full force soon, and until then, they wish everyone a wonderful summer.