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    Pattern Breakers: How to find a breakthrough startup idea | Mike Maples, Jr. (Founding Partner at Floodgate, ex-Product at Silicon Graphics)

    enJuly 07, 2024
    What creates an unfair advantage for startups?
    How do insights help startups disrupt incumbents?
    What is a founder's role in storytelling?
    Which successful startups did Mike Maples analyze?
    What books did Mike Davidson recommend for introspection?

    Podcast Summary

    • Inflections, Insights, Future FitInflections create an unfair advantage, insights serve as a slingshot for disruption, and a founder's future fit ensures they notice what's missing, increasing the likelihood of building the right product.

      Breakthrough startup ideas are fueled by inflections, insights, and a founder's ability to fit into the future. Mike Maples Jr., a legendary early-stage investor, shares his research on what sets successful startups apart from those that don't make it. He found that inflections create an unfair advantage, allowing founders to wage asymmetric warfare against industry giants. Insights serve as the slingshot, enabling startups to propose a radically different future and disrupt incumbents. A founder's future fit ensures they're living in the future and noticing what's missing, increasing the likelihood of building the right product. Maples's research, based on his experiences with successful startups like Twitter, Lyft, and Twitch, provides valuable insights for founders, product builders, and investors. If you're interested in learning more, pre-order his book "Pattern Breakers: How Some Startups Change the Future" at patternbreakers.com/Lenny to receive a free signed copy.

    • Inflections, Insights, and Founder-Market FitSuccessful startups leverage external events (inflections), deep customer understanding (insights), and founder expertise (market fit) to create unique businesses and outmaneuver competitors.

      Successful startups often harness the power of inflections, insights, and founder-market fit to create radically different businesses that defy the comparison trap. An inflection refers to an external event that creates the potential for radical change, such as the introduction of the iPhone 4S with GPS locator chip enabling the rise of ride-sharing companies like Lyft. Insights are deep understandings of customer needs or market trends that give startups a first-mover advantage into the future. Founder-market fit refers to the alignment between a founder's skills and experiences with the needs of the market. By focusing on these elements, startups can navigate the challenges of the present and change the subject to win the unfair fight against incumbents.

    • Inflections in TechnologyInflections are significant shifts in technology, society, or the market that create new opportunities for businesses. Recognizing them requires a unique founder's perspective and can lead to game-changing products.

      Inflections are significant shifts in technology, society, or the market that create new opportunities for businesses. Instagram, for example, emerged at the convergence of smartphone adoption, improved camera quality, and better network upload speeds. Inflections can be harnessed to create game-changing products, but recognizing them requires a founder's unique perspective. Not all technologies are inflections, and it's essential to consider the specific empowerment they offer, to whom, and under what conditions. Other examples of inflections include the shift towards user-generated content and internet celebrities, the proliferation of customer reviews and trust in online reviews, and the legalization of telemedicine visits across state lines. Inflections can come from various sources, not just technology, and they can significantly impact industries and society as a whole.

    • Inflections and InsightsSignificant shifts create opportunities, non-obvious insights lead to innovative solutions, and disruptive startups co-create the future with early believers.

      Inflections, insights, and breakthrough companies are interconnected elements that drive innovation and change. Inflections refer to significant regulatory, technological, or societal shifts that create new opportunities. Insights, on the other hand, are non-obvious truths discovered by founders about how to harness these inflections to change people's behavior. The best startups are those that leverage non-consensus insights to create radically different futures and co-create those futures with early believers. The Airbnb story illustrates this perfectly, as the founders saw the potential for a car-sharing service during the inflection of the smartphone era and turned it into a successful business through their non-consensus insight.

    • Unexpected placesSuccessful ideas can come from seemingly small or unexpected places, and it's important to not dismiss them and be open to surprises. Additionally, starting with smaller bets and engaging with new technologies can lead to breakthrough discoveries.

      Sometimes the most successful ideas come from unexpected places. The founders of Airbnb initially saw their air bed and breakfast business as a means to an end, but it ended up becoming a billion-dollar business. This underscores the importance of not dismissing seemingly small ideas and being open to surprises. Another lesson is to not make your initial startup bets too big. It's better to have multiple small failures than one large one, as you never know where the next big insight will come from. Interacting with new technologies and actively seeking out surprises can lead to breakthrough discoveries. As Scott Cook, the co-founder of Intuit, once said, "the ability to be surprised is a gift." So, construct your experiments in a way that allows for surprises and be open to discovering the undiscovered. Earned secrets are those discoveries that come from getting your hands dirty and exploring new things at the cutting edge. Inventions don't happen by looking out at the world through special binoculars, but by actively engaging with it.

    • Unique insights and persistenceSuccessful startups often arise from unique insights and the willingness to get hands-on experience. Founders should differentiate between incorrect insights and poorly executed implementations, be persistent and adaptable, and embrace ambiguity to increase chances of success.

      Successful startups often arise from unique insights and the willingness to get hands-on experience. These insights can come from being attuned to the world around you and observing unmet needs or market inflections. It's essential to differentiate between an incorrect insight and a poorly executed implementation. Founders should also be persistent and adaptable, pivoting when necessary. The right insight combined with the right implementation and early believers increases the chances of finding a massive success. Additionally, there's no one-size-fits-all formula for a great founder. Different founders excel in various areas, and their unique traits make them ideally suited for specific types of futures. Embracing ambiguity and being open to new opportunities can lead to breakthrough companies.

    • Future thinkingSuccessful founders deeply understand and embody the future they're trying to create by immersing themselves in futures and understanding the needs of lighthouse customers.

      The most successful founders are those who deeply understand and embody the future they're trying to create. They have a unique perspective and motivation, and they surround themselves with like-minded individuals and early adopters in that ecosystem. This alignment allows them to intuitively know what to build and effectively communicate their vision to others. To find a great startup idea, one should focus on living in the future and noticing what's missing, rather than trying to force an idea. This can be achieved by spending time with people and companies at the forefront of technology or industry trends, as they are often living in the future and can provide valuable insights. By immersing oneself in these futures and understanding the needs of lighthouse customers, one can create products that truly resonate and achieve product-market fit.

    • Movements and DisagreeablenessIdentifying and catering to customer desperation, creating a movement, and telling compelling stories can help persuade others to change their habits and bring unique ideas to life, rather than comparing to competitors

      Successful companies and individuals think differently and act on their unique ideas by creating movements, telling compelling stories, and embracing disagreeableness. The ability to identify and cater to the desperation of customers, rather than comparing yourself to competitors, is crucial in forcing a choice rather than a comparison. A movement is a powerful way to crystallize belief and bring together early believers, animating them with a shared vision of a different future. Companies like Lyft have successfully utilized this approach by creating a stark dichotomy between the present and the future, inspiring early adopters to join them in a new way of thinking. By focusing on movements, storytelling, and disagreeableness, founders can persuade others to change their habits and bring their unique ideas to life.

    • Creating a MovementSuccessful startups create movements by appealing to a higher purpose and showing the weakness in the strength of the incumbent. They don't criticize the competition but instead offer a different and better future.

      Successful startups create movements by appealing to a higher purpose and showing the weakness in the strength of the incumbent. They don't criticize the competition but instead offer a different and better future. This approach was seen in the rise of ride-sharing with Lyft, where the pink mustache made the unfamiliar concept less scary and the story of a more convenient and safer transportation option resonated with people. Similarly, Tesla's mission to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy transformed the automotive industry by appealing to a higher purpose and showing the limitations of traditional cars. To create a movement for your startup, focus on marketing, positioning, messaging, and storytelling that describes the world that is and the world that could be. The hero's journey can be a useful framework for crafting a compelling startup story, from the hero's call to adventure to the emergence of a transformed and successful business.

    • Storytelling for FoundersFounders should tailor their story to meet each audience, making them feel like the hero in the journey, rather than focusing on themselves.

      Founders need to understand their role is to guide and inspire, not be the hero of the story. Early believers, whether they are investors, employees, or customers, are the true heroes. Founders should tailor their story to meet each audience where they are and show them how they can be part of creating a better future. Steve Jobs and Abe Lincoln are examples of masterful storytellers who toggled between the world as it is and the world that could be. For founders, it's essential to build something people want and craft a story that makes each audience feel like they will be the hero in the journey. When pitching investors, focus on why they will be a hero by investing in your company, rather than talking about yourself. And remember, not all investors will believe in your vision, so it's crucial to find the ones who do and ensure they fully understand why they should.

    • Disagreeing with the status quoSuccessful founders challenge the norm and have the courage to make tough decisions, even when others may not agree, allowing them to disrupt industries and create new markets.

      Successful startups and their founders often need to be disagreeable and challenge the status quo. This mindset allows them to pursue their unique vision and mission, even when it goes against the norm or faces criticism. Being disagreeable doesn't mean being uncooperative or disrespectful, but rather having the courage to make tough decisions and stand by them, even when others may not agree. This trait is underappreciated but essential for founders, as it allows them to disrupt industries and create new markets. Additionally, the messiness and chaos that come with starting a new company are normal and even necessary parts of the process. As Robin Roberts said, "make your mess your message."

    • Product Management MovementsLenny Rachitsky emphasizes the importance of treating pattern-breaking ideas within a company as a separate entity with different leadership, go-to-market motion, and risk profiles to enable breakthrough success. Companies should make small bets and keep them hidden from the main organization in the early stages to avoid being pulled back into the consensus.

      Lenny Rachitsky, through his blog, podcast, and newsletter, has created a movement around product management by sharing his unique perspective and point of view. This movement is not just about the stories he tells or the guests he has, but also about the importance of product managers in companies and businesses. Lenny's approach to pattern-breaking ideas within a company is to treat them as a separate entity with different leadership, go-to-market motion, and risk profiles. Companies should make small bets on these ideas and make them not visible to the main organization in the early stages to avoid being pulled back into the consensus. It's important to remember that the willingness to fail and depart from the consensus is what enables breakthrough success. Lenny also emphasizes that starting or growing a company can be a lonely existence, and it's important for those willing to stick their neck out for their ideas to have respect and affection. Two books Lenny has recommended are "The Five Regrets of the Dying" by Bronnie Ware and "The Lean Startup" by Eric Ries.

    • Regrets and Present MomentReflecting on past regrets and making the most of the present are essential for living a meaningful life. Doing your best in every moment and harnessing luck through introspection are key strategies.

      Living a meaningful life involves reflecting on past regrets and making the most of the present. Mike Davidson, a pattern breaker expert, shared his fascination with books that explore the importance of introspection and harnessing luck. He recommended "Regrets of the Dying" and "Chase Chance and Creativity" as valuable reads. Additionally, Mike emphasized the significance of doing your best in every moment, as life is a gift. He learned this valuable lesson from his father and applies it to his own life. In terms of personal enjoyments, Mike enjoys the movie "Ferrari," vintage calligraphy pens, and the book "Pattern Breakers Why Some Startups Change the Future," which he wrote. To engage with Mike and learn more, listeners can find him on Substack or purchase his book on Amazon.

    Recent Episodes from Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

    Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product)

    Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product)

    Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:

    • Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style

    • Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact

    • Why chaos can be good

    • Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn

    • Why you should learn to “poke the bear”

    • Balancing product release speed with quality

    • Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design

    • Advice for founders on building company culture

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev

    Where to find Vlad Loktev:

    • X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Vlad’s background

    (02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb

    (04:28) Skills and mindsets for success

    (11:03) Impact-driven mindset

    (13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy 

    (17:54) “Poking the bear”

    (22:46) Psychological tools for leadership

    (30:08) Building and scaling teams

    (36:12) Letting fires burn

    (47:34) Embracing chaos

    (54:40) The unsell email strategy

    (01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization

    (01:05:38) The importance of company culture

    (01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management

    (01:26:41) Failure corner

    (01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How to consistently go viral: Nikita Bier’s playbook for winning at consumer apps (co-founder of TBH, Gas, advisor, investor)

    How to consistently go viral: Nikita Bier’s playbook for winning at consumer apps (co-founder of TBH, Gas, advisor, investor)

    Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth

    • Strategies for building viral consumer apps

    • Why teens are such a great audience

    • Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas

    • The challenge of creating durable social products

    • His experience working as a PM at Facebook

    • Advice for founders on building consumer apps

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

    Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier

    Where to find Nikita Bier:

    • X: https://x.com/nikitabier 

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier

    • Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Nikita’s background 

    (06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline

    (08:42) Transition to consumer apps

    (13:45) The birth of TBH

    (16:43) Building for teens vs. adults

    (20:00) TBH’s viral success

    (32:18) Leveraging live chat

    (34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH

    (37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook

    (42:19) Big-tech product management

    (48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”

    (51:49) The Tim Cook painting story

    (53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture

    (58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges

    (59:46) Addressing criticism

    (01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax

    (01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned

    (01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas

    (01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps

    (01:22:35) The VC route

    (01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18

    (01:26:53) The success of Dupe

    (01:31:53) Advice for startup founders

    (01:34:14) Work with Nikita

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Succeeding as an introvert, building zero-to-one, and why you should PM your career like you PM your product | Deb Liu (CEO of Ancestry, ex-Facebook, PayPal, eBay)

    Succeeding as an introvert, building zero-to-one, and why you should PM your career like you PM your product | Deb Liu (CEO of Ancestry, ex-Facebook, PayPal, eBay)

    Deb Liu is the CEO of Ancestry and former longtime VP of Product at Facebook. At Facebook, Deb led the creation of Facebook Marketplace, developed the first mobile ad product for apps, built the company’s games business, and launched Facebook Pay. She’s also held leadership roles at PayPal and eBay, serves on the board of Intuit, and is the author of Take Back Your Power. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why you should PM your career like you PM your product

    • Strategies for incubating new products within large companies

    • Creating a successful 30-60-90-day plan when starting a new job

    • The pitfalls of perfectionism

    • The challenges introverts face in the workplace and how to overcome them

    • The value of resilience and turning failures into stepping stones

    • How to leverage coaching in your career development

    Brought to you by:

    Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/succeeding-as-an-introvert-deb-liu

    Where to find Deb Liu:

    • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@debliu

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahliu

    • Substack: https://debliu.substack.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Introduction to Deb Liu

    (02:18) Deb’s career journey and key advice

    (09:45) Navigating new roles and challenges

    (11:27) Overcoming adversity and failure

    (15:07) Building billion-dollar businesses at Facebook

    (19:33) Strategies for zero-to-one innovation

    (23:40) PM your career like a product

    (33:53) Challenges and strategies for introverts in business

    (39:19) Reframing self-promotion

    (42:25) The power of accountability

    (46:15) Growth: a game of inches

    (50:52) The 30-60-90-day plan

    (56:52) Contrarian corner: career and marriage

    (58:57) Final nuggets of wisdom

    (01:03:09) How to find a coach

    (01:04:47) Lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Unorthodox PM wisdom: Automating user insights, unselling job candidates, logging every decision, more | Kevin Yien (Stripe, Square, Mutiny)

    Unorthodox PM wisdom: Automating user insights, unselling job candidates, logging every decision, more | Kevin Yien (Stripe, Square, Mutiny)

    Kevin Yien leads product for merchant experiences at Stripe. Before that, he meandered his way from being a technical designer to a product manager, built the restaurants business and ecosystem team at Square, and most recently was head of product and design at Mutiny. He also makes ice cream and teaches for fun. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why aspiring PMs should start in engineering, design, or sales

    • The importance of writing skills, and how to become a better writer

    • How to automate user research

    • Kevin’s “unsell email” technique for hiring

    • The value of keeping a decision log

    • Insights on AI and its impact on future generations

    • Lessons from failure

    Brought to you by:

    BuildBetter—AI for product teams

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien

    Where to find Kevin Yien:

    • X: https://x.com/kevinyien

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinyien/

    • Website: https://kevinyien.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kevin’s background 

    (02:00) The story behind Kevin’s profile picture

    (08:41) The role of a product manager

    (10:48) Getting started in product management

    (12:47) The importance of writing skills

    (15:06) Becoming a better writer

    (19:10) The PM’s role with engineering and design

    (28:41) Drawing the perimeter for your team

    (31:37) Feedback tips

    (35:13) Decision logs and product sense

    (45:36) Unorthodox hiring strategies

    (47:01) The unsell email strategy

    (54:01) Automating user research

    (01:02:27) AI in everyday life

    (01:06:05) Lessons from failure

    (01:14:34) Lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Improve strategy, influence, and decision-making by understanding your brain | Evan LaPointe (founder of CORE Sciences)

    Improve strategy, influence, and decision-making by understanding your brain | Evan LaPointe (founder of CORE Sciences)

    Evan LaPointe is the founder of CORE Sciences, which teaches companies and individuals how our brains work and how that translates to improved collaboration, better products, faster decision-making, and more growth. Previously, Evan was the co-founder of Satellite, the fourth-largest analytics company on the internet today (it mostly runs behind the scenes, and pretty much everyone listening will have used it today without knowing it), which was acquired by Adobe, where he later ran product strategy, innovation, and long-range thinking for Adobe’s digital experiences business. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The three different systems of the brain

    • How knowing this can help you become more influential

    • How understanding different brain states will help you increase productivity and creativity

    • How to improve your vision and strategy skills

    • How to design a work environment that fosters innovation

    • How to build better relationships at work

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Webflow—The web experience platform

    Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/understanding-your-brain-evan-lapointe

    Where to find Evan LaPointe:

    • X: https://x.com/evanlapointe

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanlapointe/

    • Website: https://www.core-sciences.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Evan’s background

    (02:37) Understanding the brain’s complex systems

    (07:17) The three core brain systems: safety, reward, and purpose

    (11:03) Applying brain science to team dynamics

    (14:27) The role of personality in team performance

    (17:27) Creating effective work environments

    (23:16) The science of meetings and decision-making

    (29:35) Enhancing strategy and vision

    (54:46) Understanding personality traits in strategy and vision

    (58:58) Tactical tips for increasing openness

    (01:05:46) Building influence and effective relationships

    (01:21:17) The importance of trust and appeal in relationships

    (01:36:47) Creating a positive organizational habitat

    (01:50:35) Enhancing focus and productivity

    (02:00:58) Practical tips for deep work and gamma time

    (02:07:11) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • The Most Complicated Object in the Universe: https://today.uconn.edu/2018/03/complicated-object-universe/#

    • The Myers-Briggs personality test: https://www.themyersbriggs.com/en-US/Products-and-Services/Myers-Briggs

    • The Big Five personality test: https://www.thepersonalitylab.org/

    • The Enneagram personality test: https://enneagramtest.com/

    • An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds

    • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor

    • Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config

    • An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom

    • Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably | Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-canva-with-cameron-adams

    • The Science-Business Mismatch That Puts Your Change at Risk: https://changemanagementreview.com/the-science-business-mismatch-that-puts-your-change-at-risk/

    • Daniel Pink on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielpink/

    • Trello: https://trello.com/

    • Cron: https://cronhq.notion.site/

    • The Double Diamond framework for design thinking: https://www.fluxspace.io/resources/the-4-ds-double-diamond-design-thinking-model

    • CORE Sciences - Tips on Priming Great Meetings PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gm21cj0vi0bjosyu8kd69/CORE-Sciences-Tips-on-Priming-Great-Meetings.pdf?rlkey=6fznhv7bbsxm8nj8m4luej17t&st=2eduirad&dl=0

    • How to grow a subscription business | Yuriy Timen (Grammarly, Canva, Airtable): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/transform-your-subscription-growth

    • Brené Brown’s website: https://brenebrown.com/

    • The CORE personality test: https://www.core-sciences.com/new-core-identity

    • Burning Man: https://burningman.org/

    • Stripe: https://stripe.com/

    • Jony Ive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive

    • Albert Einstein quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7133605-make-things-as-simple-as-possible-but-no-simpler

    • Elden Ring: https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ring/elden-ring

    • Abilene paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox

    The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355

    • The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon

    • Siqi Chan on X: https://x.com/blader

    • Runway: https://runway.com/

    • Shreyas Doshi on pre-mortems, the LNO framework, the three levels of product work, why most execution problems are strategy problems, and ROI vs. opportunity cost thinking: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/episode-3-shreyas-doshi

    • Wolfgang Puck’s website: https://wolfgangpuck.com/

    • Steven Spielberg on X: https://x.com/sspielberg93

    • John Williams’s website: https://www.johnwilliams.org/

    • The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer

    • Warby Parker: https://www.warbyparker.com/

    • Simon Sinek’s website: https://simonsinek.com/

    • What is the function of the various brainwaves?: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-function-of-t-1997-12-22/

    • CORE Sciences - Your Brain's 9 Modes PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/figg8upeaawir1hnxv0ew/CORE-Sciences-Your-Brain-s-9-Modes.pdf?rlkey=u3zaonxvycvupurq6pwysckfq&st=os06xjnr&dl=0

    Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It: Unlock Your Persuasion Potential in Professional and Personal Life: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

    The Person and the Situation: Perspectives of Social Psychology: https://www.amazon.com/Person-Situation-Perspectives-Social-Psychology/dp/1905177445

    Cambridge Fundamentals of Neuroscience in Psychology: https://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Fundamentals-Neuroscience-Psychology/dp/B08QYNDNYX

    • Robert Greene’s books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Robert-Greene/author/B001IGV3IS

    Misbehaving: The Making of Behavioral Economics: https://www.amazon.com/Misbehaving-Behavioral-Economics-Richard-Thaler/dp/039335279X

    • Beehiiv: https://www.beehiiv.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    How embracing your emotions will accelerate your career | Joe Hudson (executive coach, Art of Accomplishment)

    How embracing your emotions will accelerate your career | Joe Hudson (executive coach, Art of Accomplishment)

    Joe Hudson is one of the most sought-after executive coaches in Silicon Valley. He is the founder of Art of Accomplishment, a transformational coaching program that has helped tens of thousands of people, including many tech executives and founders from companies like Apple, OpenAI, and Google. His unique method of transformation comes from over 25 years of exploring neurological, psychological, and spiritual traditions, tested against real-world challenges. In our conversation, Joe shares:

    • Why the critical voice in your head is always wrong, and how to change your relationship with that voice

    • Why authenticity trumps self-improvement

    • The importance of embracing all of your emotions

    • How to create more enjoyable and effective meetings

    • The power of gratitude in transforming your life

    • Practical experiments for personal growth

    • Much more

    Apply for Joe’s Connection Course:

    Thousands of students have taken Joe’s most popular experience, the Connection Course. Unlike most online courses, there is no reading, lectures, or written homework. It is a three-week experiential deep dive where you will apply your learnings to real-life problems—how to make your team more productive, communicate more effectively, and resolve conflicts with ease. Apply here and use the code LENNY for $300 off your enrollment: view.life/lenny.

    Brought to you by:

    BuildBetter—AI for product teams

    WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs

    Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/embracing-your-emotions-joe-hudson

    Where to find Joe Hudson:

    • X: https://x.com/FU_joehudson

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-hudson/

    • Website: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/

    • Podcast: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast

    • Linktree: https://linktr.ee/theartofaccomplishment

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Joe’s background

    (02:31) The critical voice in your head

    (06:39) Changing your relationship with the critical voice

    (13:19) Understanding and embracing emotions

    (19:52) The importance of emotional fluidity

    (24:40) Questioning assumptions and self-perception

    (30:25) The consequences of avoiding emotions

    (36:57) Experimenting with self-improvement

    (39:42) Understanding efficiency and enjoyment

    (43:17) The power of enjoyment in daily tasks

    (45:03) Innate enjoyment vs. learned enjoyment

    (46:31) Authenticity vs. self-improvement

    (50:01) Embracing emotional experiences

    (55:49) How understanding your emotions helps you make better decisions

    (01:02:53) Creating effective teams and meetings

    (01:10:40) Gratitude practice for personal growth

    (01:15:36) Conclusion and final thoughts

    Referenced:

    Descartes’ Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain: https://www.amazon.com/Descartes-Error-Emotion-Reason-Human/dp/014303622X/

    • Joe’s quote about joy: https://x.com/FU_joehudson/status/1756837774743790030

    • “Emotional Inquiry”: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast/emotional-inquiry

    Inside Out 2: https://movies.disney.com/inside-out-2

    • “Question the Assumption”: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast/question-the-assumption

    • Bodega Bay: https://www.bodegabay.com/

    • Elon Musk reveals the interview question he asks every candidate to instantly spot a liar: https://www.good.is/elon-musk-reveals-the-one-job-interview-question-he-asks-every-candidate-to-instantly-spot-a-liar

    • Great Decisions course: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/course/great-decisions-course

    • HBR Analytic Services: https://hbr.org/hbr-analytic-services

    • Connection Course: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/course/the-connection-course

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    Lessons from scaling Uber and Opendoor | Brian Tolkin (Head of Product at Opendoor, ex-Uber)

    Lessons from scaling Uber and Opendoor | Brian Tolkin (Head of Product at Opendoor, ex-Uber)

    Brian Tolkin is the Head of Product at Opendoor. Previously, he was one of the early employees at Uber, where he was instrumental in launching and growing UberPool, UberHop, and UberExpress and started one of the first product operations teams in tech. In our conversation, we dive into:

    • How to enable product and ops to work well together

    • How to run great product reviews

    • How to make good decisions with limited data

    • How he uses the jobs-to-be-done framework at Opendoor

    • How to stay calm under pressure as a leader

    • Wild stories from his time at Uber

    • Challenges faced at Opendoor during the pandemic

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

    Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/scaling-uber-and-opendoor-brian-tolkin

    Where to find Brian Tolkin:

    • X: https://x.com/briantolkin

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briantolkin/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Brian’s background

    (02:14) Career beginnings at Uber

    (02:49) Transitioning from product operations to product management

    (06:47) Product and operations synergy

    (10:00) Surge pricing at Uber

    (12:18) Scaling challenges, and stories

    (15:47) Opendoor and Covid adaptations

    (25:38) Product reviews and Jobs to Be Done

    (40:30) The challenges of A/B testing

    (42:23) Increasing conviction in solutions

    (44:33) Leveraging intuition in product decisions

    (47:07) Partnering with Zillow

    (52:55) Staying calm under pressure

    (56:25) Finding the “kernel of truth” in product management

    (01:00:21) Failure corner: Early days of Uber Pool

    (01:06:11) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Referenced:

    • Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/twitters-former-head-of-product-kayvon-beykpour

    • Opendoor: https://sell.opendoor.com/

    • How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within

    • Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey

    • Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building

    • FlashTags: A Simple Hack for Conveying Context Without Confusion: https://www.onstartups.com/flashtags-a-simple-hack-for-conveying-context-without-confusion

    • Jobs to Be Done Theory: https://www.christenseninstitute.org/theory/jobs-to-be-done

    • The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta-co-creator-of-the-framework/

    • Zillow: https://www.zillow.com/

    • Zillow, Opendoor announce multi-year partnership: https://investor.opendoor.com/news-releases/news-release-details/zillow-opendoor-announce-multi-year-partnership

    • Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein

    • Stripe Atlas: https://stripe.com/atlas

    Founders podcast: https://www.founderspodcast.com/

    • Uber will deliver ice cream to you today: https://www.dispatch.com/story/lifestyle/food/2016/07/13/uber-will-deliver-ice-cream/24201840007/

    • UberKittens: https://www.uber.com/newsroom/uberkittens/

    • UberPuppies: https://www.uber.com/blog/uberpuppies-want-to-play/

    Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike: https://www.amazon.com/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-NIKE/dp/1471146723

    The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Swan-Impact-Improbable-Incerto/dp/1400063515

    The Design of Everyday Things: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465050654

    Shantaram: https://www.amazon.com/Shantaram-SHANTARAM-Paperback-GregoryDavidRoberts/dp/B00QPVJESC

    Full Swing on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81483353

    Formula 1: Drive to Survive on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80204890

    Break Point on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81569920

    Air on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/AIR-Matt-Damon/dp/B0B8Q3JMCG

    • Fi smart dog collar: https://tryfi.com/

    • Particle: https://particlenews.ai/

    • Sara Beykpour on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarabeykpour/

    • A new-parent gift guide for product managers: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-new-parent-gift-guide-for-product

    • Jeff Holden on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffholden/

    • Travis Kalanick on X: https://x.com/travisk

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    The ultimate guide to performance marketing | Timothy Davis (Shopify)

    The ultimate guide to performance marketing | Timothy Davis (Shopify)

    Timothy Davis has led performance marketing for all of Shopify for the past 2.5 years, and as a consultant has helped companies like Pinterest, LinkedIn, Redfin, and Eventbrite kickstart and scale their performance marketing teams. In every one of those cases, he got them so performant at paid growth that they significantly scale spend and investment in these channels. In our conversation, we cover:

    • When and how to start investing in performance marketing

    • Common mistakes companies make with paid ads

    • How to build and structure a performance marketing team

    • How to get your creatives performing better

    • Strategies for optimizing workflows and team efficiency

    • How AI will change performance marketing

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    BuildBetter—AI for product teams

    OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/performance-marketing-timothy-davis

    Where to find Timothy Davis:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothypatrickdavis/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Timothy’s background 

    (02:31) Understanding performance marketing 

    (06:31) The importance of paid search 

    (08:39) Identifying growth potential 

    (09:54) Case studies: Hairstory and Ipsy 

    (12:22) Experimenting with new platforms 

    (18:57) Choosing the right platforms 

    (20:23) LinkedIn for B2B marketing 

    (27:56) When to start investing in paid growth 

    (33:33) Common mistakes in performance marketing 

    (37:41) Working with agencies and consultants 

    (40:36) Hiring for performance marketing 

    (47:33) Metrics that matter 

    (54:43) Competitor analysis and CPC insights 

    (56:15) Custom reports and data visualization

    (56:38) Understanding impression and click share 

    (59:10) True competition metrics 

    (01:02:14) Attribution and incrementality 

    (01:08:52) Building a performance marketing team 

    (01:10:53) Creative and ad copy collaboration 

    (01:15:48) Managing workload and hiring strategy 

    (01:20:52) Training and onboarding new hires 

    (01:24:41) Impact of ATT on performance marketing 

    (01:25:56) The power of creative in ads 

    (01:29:47) Using AI in performance marketing 

    (01:37:16) Lightning round 

    Referenced:

    • Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

    • What Is Performance Marketing?: https://www.shopify.com/blog/performance-marketing

    • Google AI: https://ai.google/

    • Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/

    • Eventbrite: https://www.eventbrite.com/

    • Booking.com: https://www.booking.com/

    • Credit Karma: https://www.creditkarma.com/

    • Hairstory: https://hairstory.com/

    • Google Display Network: https://www.semrush.com/blog/google-display-network/

    • SoftLayer Becomes Part of IBM’s SmartCloud: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/deals/softlayer-becomes-part-of-ibm-s-smartcloud

    • Coca-Cola Freestyle: https://www.coca-colafreestyle.com/

    • Monday.com: https://monday.com/

    • How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within

    • Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey

    The Signal and the Noise: Why So Many Predictions Fail—But Some Don’t: https://www.amazon.com/Signal-Noise-Many-Predictions-Fail-but/dp/0143125087

    • Courtney Wenneborg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cwenneborg/

    • PPC Hero: https://www.ppchero.com/

    • Another Deep Dive into Auction Insights, by Jacob Brown: https://www.ppchero.com/another-deep-dive-into-auction-insights/

    •Multitouch: https://multitouch.app/

    • What is time decay attribution?: https://growthmethod.com/what-is-time-decay-attribution/

    • Linear: https://linear.app/

    • Consumer Heterogeneity and Paid Search Effectiveness: A Large-Scale Field Experiment: https://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/stadelis/BNT_ECMA_rev.pdf

    • ADT: https://www.adt.com/

    • Shopify Bursts: https://focus.business/blog/shopify-bursts/

    The First 90 Days: Proven Strategies for Getting Up to Speed Faster and Smarter: https://www.amazon.com/First-90-Days-Strategies-Expanded/dp/1422188612

    • Kat Nguyen on Shopify: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katngy/

    • Dollar Shave Club ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUG9qYTJMsI

    The Daily Stoic: 366 Meditations on Wisdom, Perseverance, and the Art of Living: https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Stoic-Meditations-Wisdom-Perseverance/dp/0735211736

    Great by Choice: Uncertainty, Chaos, and Luck—Why Some Thrive Despite Them All: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Choice-Uncertainty-Luck-Why-Despite/dp/0062120999

    X-Men ’97 on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/x-men-97/vc1XIz90ZNH5

    RRR on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81476453

    The Playlist on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81186296

    Welcome to Wrexham on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/welcome-to-wrexham-c6906d50-d06c-40d1-a57c-1885d9dc2fef

    The Billion Dollar Code on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81074012

    • Magic Mind: https://magicmind.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    5 essential questions to craft a winning strategy | Roger Martin (author, advisor, speaker)

    5 essential questions to craft a winning strategy | Roger Martin (author, advisor, speaker)

    Roger Martin is one of the world’s leading experts on strategy and the author of Playing to Win, one of the most beloved books on strategy. He’s written extensively for the Harvard Business Review; consulted for dozens of Fortune 500 companies, including P&G, Lego, and Ford; and written 11 other books. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The five key questions you need to answer to develop an effective strategy

    • Why most companies get strategy wrong

    • How to avoid “playing to play” instead of playing to win

    • Real-world strategy examples from Procter & Gamble, Southwest Airlines, Lego, and Figma

    • How to think about differentiation vs. low cost

    • Shortcomings of current strategy education

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    Webflow—The web experience platform

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    Cycle—Your feedback hub, on autopilot

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-strategy-roger-martin

    Where to find Roger Martin:

    • X: https://x.com/RogerLMartin

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-martin-9916911a9/

    • Website: https://rogerlmartin.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Roger’s background

    (02:20) The importance of strategy

    (07:00) Challenges in developing strategy

    (08:30) Critique of modern strategy education

    (14:00) Hamilton Helmer and Richard Rumelt

    (17:40) Defining strategy

    (19:12) The Strategy Choice Cascade

    (23:20) Playing to win vs. playing to play

    (24:57) Examples of strategic success

    (30:49) Differentiation and moats

    (40:23) Applying strategy to real-world scenarios

    (43:47) Customer-centric strategy

    (44:45) Defining the market and product

    (45:59) Value chain and distribution

    (48:28) Cost leadership vs. differentiation

    (53:16) Capabilities and management systems

    (57:14) Competitive advantage and market positioning

    (01:02:41) Counterpositioning and fault lines

    (01:05:53) Adapting to AI and market changes

    (01:14:11) Betterment over perfection

    (01:18:42) Final thoughts on strategy

    Referenced:

    • Nearly 10% of S&P 500 CEOs are alumni of Procter & Gamble: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/02/06/10-of-s-p-500-ceos-pg.html

    • FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

    • Figma: https://www.figma.com/

    • What Is Resource-Based Theory?: https://www.igi-global.com/dictionary/the-impact-of-technological-governance-and-political-capabilities-on-firms-performances-under-economic-turbulence/67915

    • Michael Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorporter/

    Competitive Strategy: Techniques for Analyzing Industries and Competitors: https://www.amazon.com/Competitive-Strategy-Techniques-Industries-Competitors/dp/0684841487

    • VRIO Framework Explained: https://strategicmanagementinsight.com/tools/vrio/

    • Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer

    • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard

    7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319

    • Boston Consulting Group: https://www.bcg.com/

    • Bruce Henderson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Henderson

    • Lego: https://www.lego.com

    • Vanguard: https://investor.vanguard.com/

    • Southwest Airlines: https://www.southwest.com/

    • How Amazon Managed to Dethrone Walmart: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/20/technology/how-amazon-beat-walmart.html

    • GM Lost a 10-Year Battle with Tesla, Pulling the Plug on a Long Line of EVs: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/07/09/gm-killed-its-electric-cars-and-lost-a-10-year-battle-with-tesla/

    • Westlaw: https://www.westlawinternational.com/

    • What Is an Economic Moat? Why Warren Buffett Says It Matters for Investors: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/economic-moat-why-warren-buffett-160046125.html

    • Salomon Brothers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Brothers

    • US Airways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways

    • Four Seasons: https://www.fourseasons.com/

    • Michael Dell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mdell/

    • Bill Gates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamhgates/

    • Mandarin Oriental: https://www.mandarinoriental.com/en/

    • Continental Lite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Lite

    • Ted (airline): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_(airline)

    • Case Study: Oil of Olay: https://www.studocu.com/es/document/universidad-de-murcia/estrategia-de-marketing/case-study-old-of-olay/95079369

    • AG Lafley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ag-lafley-2381b3201/

    • Jack Bogle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Bogle

    • Seven Ways Windows 95 Changed the World: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmorris/2015/08/24/windows-95-changed-the-world/

    • Where to Start with Strategy? Focus on Betterment: https://rogermartin.medium.com/where-to-start-with-strategy-bae40506304c

    • Brick by brick: The man who rebuilt the house of Lego shares his leadership secrets: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/12/08/brick-by-brick-the-man-who-rebuilt-the-house-of-lego-shares-his-leadership-secrets/

    A New Way to Think: Your Guide to Superior Management Effectiveness: https://www.amazon.com/New-Way-Think-Management-Effectiveness/dp/164782351X/

    Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

    The Design of Business: Why Design Thinking Is the Next Competitive Advantage: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Business-Thinking-Competitive-Advantage/dp/1422177807

    The Opposable Mind: How Successful Leaders Win Through Integrative Thinking: https://www.amazon.com/Opposable-Mind-Successful-Integrative-Thinking/dp/1422118924

    When More Is Not Better: Overcoming America’s Obsession with Economic Efficiency: https://www.amazon.com/When-More-Not-Better-Overcoming/dp/1647820065

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

    What most people miss about marketing | Rory Sutherland (Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK, author)

    What most people miss about marketing | Rory Sutherland (Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK, author)

    Rory Sutherland is widely regarded as one of the most influential (and most entertaining) thinkers in marketing and behavioral science. He’s the vice chairman of Ogilvy UK, the author of Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life, and the founder of Nudgestock, the world’s biggest festival of behavioral science and creativity. He champions thinking from first principles and using human psychology—what he calls “thinking psycho-logically”—over mere logic. In our conversation, we cover:

    • Why good products don’t always succeed, and bad ones don’t necessarily fail

    • Why less functionality can sometimes be more valuable

    • The importance of fame in building successful brands

    • The importance of timing in product success

    • The concept of “most advanced, yet acceptable”

    • Why metrics-driven workplaces can be demotivating

    • Lots of real-world case studies

    • Much more

    Note: We encountered some technical difficulties that led to less than ideal video quality for this episode, but the lessons from this conversation made it impossible for me to not publish it anyway. Thanks for your understanding and for bearing with the less-than-ideal video quality. 

    Brought to you by:

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    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-most-people-miss-about-marketing

    Where to find Rory Sutherland:

    • X: https://x.com/rorysutherland

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland

    • Book: Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Curious-Science-Creating-Business/dp/006238841X

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Rory’s background

    (02:37) The success and failure of products

    (04:08) Why the urge to appear serious can be a disaster in marketing

    (08:05) The role of distinctiveness in product design

    (12:29) The MAYA principle

    (15:50) How thinking irrationally can be advantageous

    (17:40) The fault of multiple-choice tests

    (21:31) Companies that have successfully implemented out-of-the-box thinking

    (30:31) “Psycho-logical” thinking

    (31:45) The hare and the dog metaphor

    (38:51) Marketing’s crucial role in product adoption

    (49:21) The quirks of Google Glass

    (55:44) Survivorship bias

    (56:09) Balancing rational ideas with irrational ideas

    (01:06:19) The rise and fall of tech innovations

    (01:09:54) Consistency, distinctiveness, and clarity

    (01:21:12) Considering psychological, technological, and economic factors in parallel

    (01:23:35) Where to find Rory

    Referenced:

    • Google Glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Glass

    • Meta Portal TV: https://www.meta.com/portal/products/portal-tv/

    • Rory’s quote in a LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/brad-jackson-04766642_the-urge-to-appear-serious-is-a-disaster-activity-7093497742710210560-1LYN/

    • The MAYA Principle: Design for the Future, but Balance It with Your Users’ Present: https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/design-for-the-future-but-balance-it-with-your-users-present

    • Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/

    • MCI: https://www.mci.world/

    • Veuve Clicquot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veuve_Clicquot

    • Why do the French call the British ‘the roast beefs’?: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2913151.stm

    The Killing on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/the-killing-f5da5c2d-4626-4ba9-bcf3-ff5f891771fb

    • Original The Killing on BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017h7m1

    • The Mandarin Oriental, Hong Kong: https://www.mandarinoriental.com/en/hong-kong/victoria-harbour

    • SAT: https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat

    • The Widening Racial Scoring Gap on the SAT College Admissions Test: https://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

    • What is the age of the captain?: https://www.icopilots.com/what-is-the-age-of-the-captain/

    • Octopus Energy: https://octopus.energy/

    • Kraken: https://octopusenergy.group/kraken-technologies

    • Toby Shannan: https://theorg.com/org/shopify/org-chart/toby-shannan

    • Dunbar’s number: Why we can only maintain 150 relationships: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191001-dunbars-number-why-we-can-only-maintain-150-relationships

    • AO: https://ao.com/

    • Zappos: https://www.zappos.com/

    • Joe Cano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeycano/

    • John Ralston Saul’s website: https://www.johnralstonsaul.com/

    Voltaire’s Bastards: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West: https://www.amazon.com/Voltaires-Bastards-Dictatorship-Reason-West/dp/0679748199

    • Psycho-Logic: Why Too Much Logic Deters Magic: https://coffeeandjunk.com/psycho-logic/

    • Herbert Simon’s Decision-Making Approach: https://bura.brunel.ac.uk/bitstream/2438/4995/1/Fulltext.pdf

    • Robert Trivers’s website: https://roberttrivers.com/Welcome.html

    • Crazy Ivan: https://jollycontrarian.com/index.php?title=Crazy_Ivan

    • The Joys of Being a Late Tech Adopter: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/technology/personaltech/joys-late-tech-adopter.html

    • Jean-Claude Van Damme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Van_Damme

    • Tim Berners-Lee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

    • Edward Jenner and the history of smallpox and vaccination: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1200696/

    • The real story behind penicillin: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/the-real-story-behind-the-worlds-first-antibiotic

    • What Are Japanese Toilets?: https://www.bigbathroomshop.co.uk/info/blog/japanese-toilets/

    • reMarkable: https://remarkable.com/

    • Chumby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumby

    • Survivorship bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

    • Jony Ive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive

    • Marc Newson’s website: https://marc-newson.com/

    • Designing Men: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2013/11/jony-ive-marc-newson-design-auction

    • Qantas A330: https://marc-newson.com/qantas-a330/

    • Herodotus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus

    • Big Decision? Consider It Both Drunk and Sober: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chunkamui/2016/03/22/wine-and-sleep-make-for-better-decisions/?sh=5c97fdc524b1

    • How Henry Ford and Thomas Edison killed the electric car: https://www.speakev.com/threads/how-henry-ford-and-thomas-edison-killed-the-electric-car.4270/

    • Watch Jay Leno get nostalgic and swoon over this 1909 EV: https://thenextweb.com/news/jay-leno-talk-about-electric-car-1909-baker

    Jay Leno’s Garage: https://www.youtube.com/@jaylenosgarage

    • Nudgestock: https://nudgestock.com/

    • Akio Morita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akio_Morita

    • Don Norman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnorman/

    • What Makes Tesla’s Business Model Different: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/072115/what-makes-teslas-business-model-different.asp

    • Monica Lewinsky on X: https://x.com/MonicaLewinsky

    Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains: azon.com/Blindsight-Mostly-Hidden-Marketing-Reshapes-ebook/dp/B07ZKZ5DWF

    Branding That Means Business: https://www.amazon.com/Branding-that-Means-Business-Economist-ebook/dp/B09QBCCH9N

    • PwC: https://www.pwc.com

    • Ryanair: https://www.ryanair.com

    • British Airways: https://www.britishairways.com/

    • Wrigley’s began as a soap business: know when to pivot: https://theamericangenius.com/entrepreneur/wrigleys-began-as-soap-know-when-to-pivot/

    Transport for Humans: https://www.amazon.com/Transport-Humans-Perspectives-Pete-Dyson/dp/1913019357

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



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