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    • Managing the COVID-19 Crisis: Challenges and HopeThe Biden administration, under Vivek Murthy's leadership, aims to vaccinate over 300 million people, but faces hurdles due to polarization, disinformation, and resource constraints.

      The Biden administration faces a monumental challenge in managing the COVID-19 crisis, with over 400,000 deaths in the US and the threat of more contagious strains leading to a sharp increase in cases. However, there is hope with the development of effective vaccines from Pfizer, Moderna, and others. The Biden administration, under the leadership of Vivek Murthy as cochair of the coronavirus task force, aims to immunize over 300 million people, but faces hurdles in polarization, disinformation, and resource constraints. The pandemic's impact is personal for Murthy and many Americans, with lives disrupted and loved ones lost. Despite the challenges, Murthy remains committed to getting the pandemic response right for the sake of the country. The importance of human connection, highlighted in Murthy's book, has taken on new significance in the context of the pandemic.

    • Building a robust vaccination campaignThe Biden administration is focusing on assessing vaccine supply and distribution needs, providing more resources, and tailoring responses to communities' unique needs to effectively distribute COVID-19 vaccines.

      The Biden administration is focusing on building a robust vaccination campaign to get COVID-19 vaccines into people's arms. The team is working closely with state and local officials to assess the current state of vaccine supply and distribution. They've identified that there's a need for more resources, time, and coordination to build up the channels needed for effective vaccine distribution. The challenge is that there are areas facing supply shortages, while others have adequate supply but struggle with distribution. The administration aims to tailor its response to the unique needs of each community. The team is also addressing misinformation and working to give states clearer supply projections to help them plan. The goal is to ramp up production and distribution simultaneously to address both issues effectively.

    • Adapting to changing vaccine distribution needsEffective vaccine distribution requires flexibility, constant adaptation, and around-the-clock operations. Clear communication and collaboration between federal and state governments are crucial to avoid lost lives and wasted time.

      An effective response to vaccine distribution requires flexibility and constant adaptation to changing needs. The pandemic situation varies greatly among communities, and a tailored approach is necessary. Moreover, treating the vaccine distribution as a national emergency with around-the-clock operations is crucial. However, many states lack the resources and personnel to implement such measures. The lack of planning and preparation for these essential aspects of vaccine distribution is a significant concern, leading to lost lives and wasted time. It's essential to learn from these challenges and make necessary improvements in future responses. Additionally, the division of responsibilities between the federal government and states may have contributed to the inadequate planning and execution of vaccine distribution. Clearer communication and collaboration between all parties involved could lead to more effective and efficient distribution efforts.

    • Government action needed for effective COVID-19 responseThe federal government can expedite the vaccination rollout by setting up community sites, mobilizing officials, and collaborating with pharmacies, while also awaiting a larger relief package.

      An effective response to the COVID-19 pandemic requires a collective effort from both the scientific community and the political apparatus. The federal government must use all available assets to address the crisis until it is under control, and it's crucial for political will and execution to complement scientific ideas. The government can act now to accelerate the vaccination rollout by setting up community vaccination sites, mobilizing federal officials, and working with pharmacies, while awaiting the passage of the larger relief package for additional resources. The pandemic response demands unity and cooperation among all levels of government and society to save lives and turn the situation around.

    • Effective communication and flexibility crucial for implementing scientific guidelinesClear communication between federal government and states is essential for implementing scientific guidelines during a crisis. Building channels for regular feedback and allowing local autonomy can lead to successful vaccine rollouts.

      Effective communication and flexibility are crucial in implementing scientific guidelines, particularly during a crisis like the COVID-19 vaccine rollout. The federal government's guidelines, while carefully crafted, were not always clear to states, leading to delays and confusion. States with the capacity to distribute vaccines quickly chose to do so, while others adhered strictly to the guidelines. However, the best guidelines become constraints if not communicated properly. Two-way communication between the federal government and states is essential for understanding what's working and what isn't. The federal government must reach out and build channels for regular communication, allowing states to provide feedback. Some states have even gone beyond federal guidelines, highlighting the importance of local autonomy and adaptability. Ultimately, the vaccine rollout demonstrates the need for a balanced approach, combining scientific expertise with effective communication and flexibility.

    • Balancing fairness and speed in vaccine distributionCommunicate guidelines clearly, consider alternative dosing structures, and set proper expectations to manage public anger and confusion during vaccine rollout

      Ensuring fairness in vaccine distribution while moving quickly to save lives is a complex challenge. While it's important to communicate clearly with the public about guidelines and priorities, the reality is that there won't be a perfect system where every person in one category is vaccinated before moving on to the next. Instead, there will be fits and starts, and some people may feel unfairly left behind. To mitigate this, it would have been ideal to present guidelines and have an open conversation about the trade-offs between speed and fairness. The administration could also consider studying alternative dosing structures, but should be cautious about making hasty decisions based on limited data. Ultimately, creating transparency and setting proper expectations are crucial in managing the public's anger and confusion during the vaccine rollout.

    • Science-informed approach to vaccine decisionsMaking vaccine decisions based on available data while considering potential risks to immune response and public health measures

      Following science does not mean waiting for 100% certainty before making decisions. Instead, a science-informed approach involves understanding what data is available, what is not, and making the best judgments possible. However, when it comes to decisions about vaccines, such as half dosing or delaying second doses, there is a risk of losing the robustness of the immune response, which could lead to the need for revaccination and the use of more vaccine. In the current dire situation with COVID-19, where thousands are dying daily, the trade-offs are harsh, and a science-informed approach also involves continuing public health measures like masking, avoiding indoor gatherings, washing hands, and distancing until more vaccine supply becomes available.

    • New COVID-19 variants require increased actionStay informed, prioritize genomic surveillance, strengthen public health measures, invest in treatments, distribute vaccine efficiently, and protect as many people as possible.

      The emergence of new and more contagious COVID-19 variants, such as those from the UK, South Africa, and Brazil, requires increased vigilance and action. These variants could lead to more transmission and potentially more severe disease in the future. To prepare for this possibility, it's essential to prioritize genomic surveillance, strengthen public health measures, and invest in developing effective treatments. Additionally, we should make the most of the existing vaccine supply by increasing distribution channels and hiring more vaccinators to ensure efficient delivery. While it's important to consider changing dosing regimens in response to new data, we should first focus on utilizing the current supply to protect as many people as possible. Overall, the emergence of these variants underscores the importance of staying informed, being proactive, and working together to address the ongoing pandemic.

    • Boosting Vaccine Production and DistributionThe Biden admin is collaborating with manufacturers to increase vaccine production and usage, employing the DPA for essential components, and aiming to speed up vaccinations domestically and abroad by tackling supply challenges and introducing new vaccines like J&J and Novavax.

      The Biden administration is working closely with vaccine manufacturers to increase production and utilization of existing supplies, while also using the Defense Production Act to manufacture necessary components and syringes. They aim to accelerate vaccinations in the US and globally by addressing supply issues and bringing new vaccines like Johnson & Johnson and Novavax to market as quickly as possible. The FDA's approval of the AstraZeneca vaccine is pending, and the administration is hopeful for promising data from the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which could offer advantages like single-dose administration and easier storage. The ultimate goal is to ensure a more robust and diverse vaccine supply chain for future pandemics.

    • Building trust for effective vaccine responseUnderstanding skeptics' concerns, engaging trusted voices, and providing clear, digestible info are crucial for addressing vaccine hesitancy and building trust for effective public health responses.

      Building infrastructure for large-scale bioreactor farms during non-pandemic times could create a more effective public health response in the future. This includes the rapid production of vaccines and therapeutics. However, there is a significant challenge of vaccine hesitancy, with 30% of people expressing reluctance to get vaccinated. To address this, it's crucial to listen to skeptics and understand their concerns, which include fears about the vaccine's development speed, personal experiences with side effects, and historical mistrust of the medical community due to racist practices. Building trust begins with listening and engaging trusted voices in communities as messengers. Additionally, clear and digestible information, as well as combating disinformation campaigns, are essential.

    • Listening is a powerful form of actionEffective communication in public health crises requires active listening and empathy. Work with tech companies to root out misinformation, value individual perspectives, and recognize the limits of scientific knowledge.

      Effective communication and addressing misinformation and disinformation, particularly in the context of public health crises, requires active listening and empathy. Misinformation and disinformation, which can cost lives, are often willfully spread, and it's crucial to work closely with technology companies to root them out. Listening is a powerful form of action that conveys respect, trust, and value to individuals, forming the foundation for partnership and understanding. In the face of the pandemic and future crises, it's essential to listen to science and communities, recognizing their unique perspectives and the limits of scientific knowledge. The meditation practice's lesson, "don't just do something, sit there," highlights the importance of listening and the challenges it presents, particularly in contentious situations. By embracing this principle, we can foster a more productive dialogue, build trust, and ultimately, make a positive impact.

    • Effective leadership involves listening and building consensusTrue leadership balances speaking up and listening, and in the context of the pandemic, it means conveying scientific information accurately and with caution.

      Effective leadership goes beyond being loud and vocal. It also involves listening, building consensus, and giving space for others to contribute. The COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted the importance of this type of leadership, especially in the context of scientific communication. Scientists and epidemiologists have been cautious in their vaccine communication due to the evolving nature of science and the potential backlash against changing views. However, they can provide more clarity about the vaccine's benefits, including its impact on transmission. In summary, true leadership involves a balance of speaking up and listening, and in the context of the pandemic, it also means conveying scientific information accurately and with caution.

    • COVID-19 vaccine brings comfort and reduces riskThe vaccine lessens the risk of getting sick, hospitalized, or passing away from COVID-19 for individuals and those around them, while also reducing anxiety in public settings. However, safety precautions like masks and social distancing are still necessary.

      The COVID-19 vaccine reduces the risk of getting sick and being hospitalized or passing away from the virus for both the vaccinated individual and those around them. It also provides greater confidence and reduces anxiety when interacting with others in public settings. However, it's important to continue following safety precautions like wearing masks and social distancing, as the full extent of the vaccine's ability to prevent transmission is not yet known. The vaccine brings comfort and peace of mind to families and loved ones, but we are not yet at a point where we can abandon all safety measures. The road to herd immunity and a return to pre-pandemic living requires continued vaccination efforts and a decrease in cases and deaths.

    • Investing $50 billion in COVID-19 testing infrastructureThe Biden administration's relief plan allocates $50 billion for COVID-19 testing, aiming to scale up production and invest in advanced, accessible tests to help identify outbreaks and track variants.

      The Biden administration's $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief plan includes a significant investment in testing infrastructure, with $50 billion allocated for this purpose. This funding aims to scale up production of existing tests, as well as invest in more accurate, mobile, and home-based tests. The importance of testing lies in its ability to identify new outbreaks, track variants, and ensure communities have easy, accessible, and affordable testing options. With the ongoing pandemic and potential future health crises, building a robust testing infrastructure is crucial for effective response and prevention.

    • Expanding testing capabilities and investing in contact tracingThe COVID-19 pandemic underscores the need for at-home rapid testing and contact tracing workforce investment to effectively manage the ongoing crisis.

      The COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted the importance of expanding our testing capabilities, particularly in the area of at-home rapid testing. The FDA's strict regulations have hindered the development and approval of these tests, leading to a missed opportunity for widespread testing innovation. There are different types of testing, including diagnostic and public health surveillance, and both are essential for controlling the spread of the virus. Contact tracing is another crucial component of infection control, as it helps identify and isolate individuals who may have been exposed. Despite its effectiveness, contact tracing has faced challenges due to a lack of sufficient workforce and resources. The Biden administration has recognized the need for investment in this area, but it may be overshadowed by the focus on vaccines. In summary, expanding testing capabilities, particularly with at-home rapid tests, and investing in contact tracing workforce are crucial steps to effectively manage the ongoing pandemic.

    • The Importance of Accessible, High-Quality Masks for Public Health and Well-BeingImproving access to high-quality masks could save lives and positively impact public health and well-being. Clear standards, government distribution, better information, and education are essential to effectively address mask usage.

      Masks are a crucial tool in preventing the spread of COVID-19, and improving access to high-quality masks could save lives. The discussion highlighted the importance of clear standards and production of masks, as well as the potential benefits of government distribution. Additionally, the conversation touched upon the sociological aspect of masking and the need for better information and education for the public. The speaker also emphasized the connection between mask usage and mental health, particularly in the context of social isolation and loneliness. Overall, investing in accessible, high-quality masks could have significant positive impacts on both public health and well-being.

    • Reevaluating the Importance of Relationships Amidst the PandemicAmidst the pandemic, prioritize relationships by making time, being present, and reaching out to loved ones. Leaders should foster respectful dialogue to heal divisions and rebuild connections.

      The COVID-19 pandemic has led many people to reevaluate the importance of relationships in their lives. This realization comes as a result of the pandemic taking away our ability to physically be present with loved ones and friends. Simultaneously, the pandemic has deepened divisions among people due to politicized responses. Moving forward, it is essential to prioritize relationships and build a life centered around them. This means making time for loved ones, being fully present during conversations, and reaching out to those in need. For those in leadership roles, creating spaces for respectful dialogue is crucial to rebuild connections and heal from the divisiveness caused by the pandemic. Ultimately, the goal is to create a country where people invest in each other, take the time to understand one another, and work together towards healing.

    • Understanding Loneliness and Finding InspirationFormer Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy recommends 'Cast Away' for understanding loneliness, 'Plagues and Politics' for inspiring future leaders, and seeking inspiration from historical figures, speeches, and teachers when feeling drained.

      Dr. Vivek Murthy, a former Surgeon General of the United States Army, emphasizes the importance of understanding and addressing emotions like loneliness, drawing inspiration from various sources, and learning from historical figures. For understanding loneliness, he recommends the movie "Cast Away." For inspiring future surgeon generals, he suggests reading "Plagues and Politics" by Fitzhugh Mullen. To truly capture the experience of being a doctor, he finds no single show or movie sufficient, instead seeking inspiration from speeches by figures like Martin Luther King Jr., Barack Obama, and John McCain. When feeling drained, he turns to inspiring speeches and teachers like Jack Kornfield, Mahatma Gandhi, and Vivekananda.

    • The Power of Spirituality and ServiceSpirituality expressed through service holds immense power in improving and strengthening the world. Dr. Vivek Murthy emphasized the significance of spirituality in shaping his life and work, and the importance of service as a means to deliver spirituality and make a positive impact.

      Spirituality, particularly when expressed through service, holds immense power in improving and strengthening the world. This insight was shared by Dr. Vivek Murthy during his conversation with Ezra Klein. Murthy, a former Surgeon General of the United States Army and current Vice Admiral in the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, emphasized the significance of spirituality in shaping his life and work. He also highlighted the importance of service as a means to deliver spirituality and make a positive impact on the world. This resonated with Ezra, who was introduced to Murthy's teachings at a young age and continues to find guidance in his words. In a lighter moment, Ezra jokingly wondered who he would look like if he could look like any New York Times columnist, and he picked David Brooks for his thoughtful demeanor. Overall, the conversation underscored the importance of spirituality, service, and introspection in personal growth and societal progress.

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    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

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    And yet in surveys, people keep saying the economy is bad. A recent Harris poll for The Guardian found that around half of Americans think the S. & P. 500 is down this year, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high. Fifty-six percent think we’re in a recession.

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    At the time, prices weren’t the big topic in the economy; the focus was more on jobs and wages. So it was easier for this trend to slip notice, like a frog boiling in water, quietly, putting more and more strain on American budgets. But today, after years of high inflation, prices are the biggest topic in the economy. And I think that explains the anger people feel: They’re noticing the price of things all the time, and getting hammered with the reality of how expensive these things have become.

    The author of that Atlantic piece is Annie Lowrey. She’s an economics reporter, the author of Give People Money, and also my wife. In this conversation, we discuss how the affordability crisis has collided with our post-pandemic inflationary world, the forces that shape our economic perceptions, why people keep spending as if prices aren’t a strain and what this might mean for the presidential election.

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    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

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    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

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    After Donald Trump was convicted last week in his hush-money trial, Republican leaders wasted no time in rallying behind him. There was no chance the Republican Party was going to replace Trump as their nominee at this point. Trump has essentially taken over the G.O.P.; his daughter-in-law is even co-chair of the Republican National Committee.

    How did the Republican Party get so weak that it could fall victim to a hostile takeover?

    Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld are the authors of “The Hollow Parties: The Many Pasts and Disordered Present of American Party Politics,” which traces how both major political parties have been “hollowed out” over the decades, transforming once-powerful gatekeeping institutions into mere vessels for the ideologies of specific candidates. And they argue that this change has been perilous for our democracy.

    In this conversation, we discuss how the power of the parties has been gradually chipped away; why the Republican Party became less ideological and more geared around conflict; the merits of a stronger party system; and more.

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    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

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    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show’‘ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker, Kate Sinclair and Rollin Hu. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

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    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    The steady dings of notifications. The 40 tabs that greet you when you open your computer in the morning. The hundreds of unread emails, most of them spam, with subject lines pleading or screaming for you to click. Our attention is under assault these days, and most of us are familiar with the feeling that gives us — fractured, irritated, overwhelmed.

    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

    In this conversation, we talk about how the 20th-century study of attention laid the groundwork for today’s attention economy, the connection between changing ideas of attention and changing ideas of the self, how we even define attention (this episode is worth listening to for Burnett’s collection of beautiful metaphors alone), whether the concern over our shrinking attention spans is simply a moral panic, what it means to teach attention and more.

    Mentioned:

    Friends of Attention

    The Battle for Attention” by Nathan Heller

    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

    Book Recommendations:

    Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll

    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

    The Confidence-Man by Herman Melville

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 31, 2024

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    A.I.-generated art has flooded the internet, and a lot of it is derivative, even boring or offensive. But what could it look like for artists to collaborate with A.I. systems in making art that is actually generative, challenging, transcendent?

    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

    Mentioned:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    “The Jetsons” premiered in 1962. And based on the internal math of the show, George Jetson, the dad, was born in 2022. He’d be a toddler right now. And we are so far away from the world that show imagined. There were a lot of future-trippers in the 1960s, and most of them would be pretty disappointed by how that future turned out.

    So what happened? Why didn’t we build that future?

    The answer, I think, lies in the 1970s. I’ve been spending a lot of time studying that decade in my work, trying to understand why America is so bad at building today. And James Pethokoukis has also spent a lot of time looking at the 1970s, in his work trying to understand why America is less innovative today than it was in the postwar decades. So Pethokoukis and I are asking similar questions, and circling the same time period, but from very different ideological vantages.

    Pethokoukis is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and author of the book “The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised.” He also writes a newsletter called Faster, Please! “The two screamingly obvious things that we stopped doing is we stopped spending on science, research and development the way we did in the 1960s,” he tells me, “and we began to regulate our economy as if regulation would have no impact on innovation.”

    In this conversation, we debate why the ’70s were such an inflection point; whether this slowdown phenomenon is just something that happens as countries get wealthier; and what the government’s role should be in supporting and regulating emerging technologies like A.I.

    Mentioned:

    U.S. Infrastructure: 1929-2017” by Ray C. Fair

    Book Recommendations

    Why Information Grows by Cesar Hidalgo

    The Expanse series by James S.A. Corey

    The American Dream Is Not Dead by Michael R. Strain

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 21, 2024

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