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    • Opposition to Biden's Reelection BidDespite being the oldest president, Biden faces opposition from Americans due to voter dissatisfaction, political polarization, and age concerns. However, historical precedent suggests incumbents can still win reelection despite low approval ratings.

      President Joe Biden faces significant opposition from Americans, including many Democrats, who do not want him to run for reelection in 2024. Reasons for this include general voter dissatisfaction with incumbents, increased political polarization, and specific concerns about Biden's age. With Biden being the oldest president in US history, over two-thirds of Americans believe he is too old to run for another term. The potential for a health incident or other unforeseen event could crystallize these fears and make them difficult for his campaign to address. However, it's important to note that historical precedent shows that incumbents, even those with lower approval ratings at this stage in their terms, have gone on to win reelection.

    • Concerns over President Biden's age and fitness for the jobSome voters and Democrats worry about Biden's age and ability to handle the rigors of the presidency, potentially impacting his effectiveness.

      The public perception of President Joe Biden's age and fitness for the job is a concern for some voters and Democrats. It's not just about the potential for embarrassing moments or memes, but rather the deeper fear that the rigors of the presidency might be too much for him, making him less effective. A focus group of Biden voters revealed that none believed he'd be up to the job at 86, which would be the end of a second term. The White House argues that Biden's busy schedule and energy levels prove he's up to the task, but some Democrats feel forced into supporting him despite their concerns. The episode of Biden spending an hour with the speaker's family in the White House showcased his kindness, graciousness, and sharp memory, but also his tendency for long stories, which have been a part of him throughout his career. The age issue is not new, and it's a genuine concern for some, even if it's not the only factor in the political landscape.

    • Challenges in portraying Biden's mental acuityEffectively communicating Biden's mental sharpness to voters is tough due to limited public engagements and narratives about his age and past issues. Allowing him to be more off the cuff could lead to memorable moments, good or bad.

      Despite Joe Biden's age and past political issues, his mental acuity remains sharp. However, effectively communicating this to the electorate is a challenge due to his limited public engagements. Biden's lack of dominant public persona leaves room for narratives about him, and his avoidance of major interviews fuels suspicion. However, during moments like the State of the Union address, Biden's ability to mix it up and show energy surpasses expectations, allowing him to continuously clear the low bar set for him. The risks of occasional gaffes or stumbles must be weighed against the risks of not letting him engage publicly, as the narrative about him could take hold. Ultimately, allowing Biden to be more off the cuff and show his personality could lead to memorable moments, both positive and negative, but it's a risk worth taking to show the authentic Joe Biden to the public.

    • Vice President Harris' Role in Biden's Campaign: A Delicate BalanceDespite challenges, Harris aims to make a higher profile for herself in Biden's campaign by drawing contrasts and being a 'fighter' against the opposing ticket.

      Vice President Kamala Harris' role in President Joe Biden's campaign is a complex one. Her unpopularity compared to Biden and the challenges she faced during her tenure as vice president have raised concerns among Democrats about her ability to appeal to voters if something were to happen to Biden. However, Harris' lack of perceived political strength also serves to alleviate pressure on Biden to step down or face a primary challenge. As the campaign gears up for 2024, Harris is expected to focus on drawing contrasts with the opposing ticket and establishing a clear message that sets her apart as an individual. Despite the obstacles she cannot control, such as being the first black woman to serve as vice president and dealing with sexism and racism, Harris will aim to make a higher profile for herself by being a "fighter" against the Republican nominee. Ultimately, Harris' role in the campaign is a delicate balance between addressing concerns about her ability to lead and leveraging her unique experiences and strengths to appeal to voters.

    • Challenges for Presidents in Their Third YearPresidents often face low approval ratings in their third year, and to overcome this, they must make the election a choice rather than a referendum, and have a clear message that resonates with voters, especially on economic issues.

      Historically, the third year of a presidency can be a challenging time for approval ratings. During this period, the vice president may not be allowed to outshine the president to avoid raising questions about the president's future plans. For instance, Joe Biden's approval rating is currently at mid-40s, which is not great but not unusual for this stage of a presidency. Presidents like Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama, and even Biden himself in 2011 experienced similar dips in approval ratings during their third years. The solution for incumbents, as seen in Obama's re-election campaign, is to make the election a choice rather than a referendum, and to have a clear message that resonates with voters. In Biden's case, the lack of trust in his handling of the economy could be a major concern, as voters currently trust Donald Trump more on economic issues. This issue may not be solely due to inflation but also the overall cost of living, which has been a concern for voters for some time. The incumbent's approval rating can be negatively affected by these concerns, regardless of who holds the office.

    • 2024 Presidential Race: Economy vs Identity and Cultural ValuesThe 2024 presidential race will be influenced by voters' perceptions of economic conditions before and after COVID, with Biden focusing on identity and cultural values. Democrats' midterm success despite Biden's low approval ratings and economic concerns shows voters prioritize issues beyond the economy.

      The 2024 presidential race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump will likely be shaped by voters' perceptions of economic conditions before and after the COVID-19 pandemic. While Trump may argue that the economy was thriving before COVID, Biden is expected to focus on issues related to identity and cultural values, which resonate strongly with voters. Despite Biden's low approval ratings and concerns about his handling of the economy, Democrats performed well in the 2022 midterm elections. Voters' priorities extend beyond economic issues, and the stark differences between the parties on social and cultural issues are a significant factor in their voting decisions. Biden's campaign team believes historical trends may not apply to him, as the midterm results showed. Inflation was a concern for voters, but they did not necessarily blame Biden for it. Abortion and other social issues, however, highlighted the contrasting positions of the parties, making these issues critical in the 2024 race.

    • Impact of candidate performance on electionsDemocrats outperformed expectations in 2022 elections due to moderate candidates, while extreme Republican candidates faced a penalty at the polls. Biden's bipartisan deals could be an advantage in 2024 by appealing to voters tired of political extremism.

      The performance of candidates in elections, particularly in competitive races, can have a significant impact on voter turnout and election outcomes. According to a report by Catalyst, Democrats outperformed expectations in competitive races during the 2022 elections, while Republicans tended to nominate more extreme candidates. This overperformance of Democrats can be attributed to their selection of mainstream Democratic candidates, who were perceived as more moderate than their Republican counterparts. Conversely, Republican candidates who embraced extreme positions, such as denying election results, faced a penalty at the polls. Looking ahead to the 2024 elections, President Biden's ability to negotiate bipartisan deals and his reputation for being willing to work across the aisle could be a significant advantage for him. The success of these bipartisan efforts could help Biden appeal to voters who are tired of political extremism and want to see compromise in Washington.

    • Democrats need a diverse coalition to win electionsDemocrats should frame accomplishments as proof points of their fight for the American people, contrasting it with the opposition's agenda.

      The Democratic Party, due to the electoral college and the structure of the Senate, needs a diverse and inclusive coalition to win elections. In contrast, the Republican Party can rely on a more conservative base. During the 2012 Democratic Convention, efforts were made to highlight the accomplishments of President Obama through key messengers like Bill Clinton. However, focusing solely on accomplishments may not resonate with voters who are struggling economically. Instead, accomplishments should be framed as proof points that the Democrats are fighting for them and will continue to do so. Biden's recent address on the debt ceiling deal provides an example of this approach, emphasizing the protection of essential rights and services while highlighting the opposition's agenda. In summary, the Democratic Party's message should focus on the ongoing fight for the American people and contrast it with the opposition's agenda.

    • Fear of Republicans drives young voters to DemocratsYoung voters are motivated to vote for Democrats due to their opposition to Republican policies and candidates, even if they're not particularly fond of Biden.

      Despite some voters' reservations about President Joe Biden's performance, there is a strong fear and opposition towards the Republican Party and its candidates. This fear, particularly among young voters, has led them to vote for Democrats in significant numbers, even if they don't particularly like Biden. Biden's relatively low approval ratings might not be a disadvantage in this context, as he doesn't take up much political space and allows the focus to be on opposing the Republicans. This dynamic was evident in the 2022 elections, where young voters turned out in large numbers to prevent Republican candidates from gaining power. The fear of what the Republicans represent and their policies, such as Dobbs and election denial, has become a powerful motivator for these voters to support the Democrats.

    • Biden lets Republicans take the spotlight, Trump reverts to outsider roleBiden's approach allows Republicans to lead attacks, Trump can regain outsider status, but Biden has advantage due to negative opinions and voter loyalty

      President Biden's approach to politics allows Republicans to take the spotlight and motivate Democrats against them, leaving a large middle ground for Biden to appeal to a broad coalition of voters. Trump, as a former incumbent, can revert to his role as an outsider and challenge the establishment in a potential rematch. However, Biden's advantage lies in the fact that most people have formed a negative opinion of Trump, and he continues to lose support among independent voters and those dissatisfied with both candidates. Biden won the last race, and it's unclear how many voters who supported him in 2020 would switch back to Trump.

    • Biden vs DeSantis: Democrats' Concerns Over DeSantis' ExtremismDemocrats worry that DeSantis' perceived extremism and Trump's base could make him a tough opponent in a general election, but his ability to govern effectively in Florida may mitigate some concerns. A weak Democratic candidate in 2022 helped DeSantis, but alternative Republican candidates like Tim Scott or Nikki Haley could also emerge as viable options.

      The matchup between Biden and DeSantis is becoming a concern for Democrats due to DeSantis' perceived extremism and his ability to mobilize Trump's base if Trump is not the nominee. The speaker notes that DeSantis' actions and media coverage have shifted the perception of him as an extreme Republican, which may not serve him well in a general election. Additionally, if Trump loses the primary, there's a risk that he could try to burn down the party, making it more difficult for DeSantis to secure the nomination. The speaker also mentions that the Democratic Party had a weak candidate in Florida during the 2022 midterms and that DeSantis was able to govern in a way that didn't make him seem as extreme to Florida voters. However, the speaker also acknowledges that this scenario is less likely but not impossible. In a more off-chance scenario, a more strategically positioned Republican candidate, such as Tim Scott or Nikki Haley, could emerge as a viable alternative to both Trump and DeSantis.

    • The Republican primary electorate in 2023 is distinctly different from past primariesRepublican voters in 2023 prioritize MAGA ideology over electability, making it challenging for non-MAGA candidates like Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, and Chris Christie to gain significant support.

      The Republican primary electorate in 2023 is vastly different from the electorate of previous Republican primaries, and the current candidates, such as Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, and Chris Christie, do not seem capable of appealing to the MAGA-leaning base. The Republican Party has embraced populism and economic and cultural populism, and candidates who are perceived as not being MAGA enough, like Nikki Haley and Tim Scott, are unlikely to gain significant support. Additionally, candidates who criticize Trump or DeSantis, like Chris Christie, face strong opposition from a large segment of the Republican electorate. The lack of concern for electability and a strategic approach among the majority of Republican voters sets the party apart from the Democrats, who are more focused on winning the general election.

    • Preparing Biden for the debates and countering negative messagingBiden's team should get him out and about during the primary, engaging with crowds, showing energy and compassion, using humor, attending ribbon-cutting events, and highlighting accomplishments to effectively counteract negative rhetoric and maintain voter connection.

      Joe Biden's team needs to get him out and about during the Democratic primary to prepare him for the debates and to counteract the constant negative messaging coming from Republican candidates. Biden's experience as president gives him unique advantages, such as the ability to pass legislation and shape narratives, but these accomplishments need to be effectively communicated to voters. To do this, Biden should engage with crowds, show energy and compassion, and use humor to diffuse potential age-related concerns. Additionally, Biden's team should focus on attending ribbon-cutting events and other public appearances to highlight his accomplishments and continue pushing forward his agenda. Overall, it's crucial for Biden to be an active and visible presence during the primary season to effectively counteract the negative rhetoric and maintain his connection with voters.

    • Understanding the Consequences of Different Election OutcomesFormer Obama advisor Jon Favreau urges people to consider the potential harm of the opposing side in the upcoming election and suggests reading books like 'How to Break Up with Your Phone', 'A Visit from the Goon Squad', and 'No One is Talking About This' for insights on reducing screen addiction, storytelling, and Internet culture.

      During the upcoming election, there are two distinct visions and paths for the future, and it's crucial for people to understand the potential consequences of each choice. Former Obama advisor Jon Favreau emphasized the importance of reminding people of the potential harm that could come from the opposing side if they are not returned to power. Additionally, Favreau shared his current reading list, which includes "How to Break Up with Your Phone" by Catherine Price, "A Visit from the Goon Squad" by Jennifer Egan, and "No One is Talking About This" by Patricia Lockwood. These books offer insights on reducing screen addiction, storytelling, and the Internet culture, respectively.

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    Mentioned:

    This Isn’t All Joe Biden’s Fault” by Ezra Klein

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    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This audio essay was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-Checking by Jack McCordick and Michelle Harris. Mixing by Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, Elias Isquith and Aman Sahota. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

    The Ezra Klein Show
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    After That Debate, the Risk of Biden Is Clear

    After That Debate, the Risk of Biden Is Clear

    I joined my Times Opinion colleagues Ross Douthat and Michelle Cottle to discuss the debate — and what Democrats might do next.

    Mentioned:

    The Biden and Trump Weaknesses That Don’t Get Enough Attention” by Ross Douthat

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!” with Matthew Yglesias on The Ezra Klein Show

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” on The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” with Elaine Kamarck on The Ezra Klein Show

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    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 28, 2024

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

    Trump’s Bold Vision for America: Higher Prices!

    Donald Trump has made inflation a central part of his campaign message. At his rallies, he rails against “the Biden inflation tax” and “crooked Joe’s inflation nightmare,” and promises that in a second Trump term, “inflation will be in full retreat.”

    But if you look at Trump’s actual policies, that wouldn’t be the case at all. Trump has a bold, ambitious agenda to make prices much, much higher. He’s proposing a 10 percent tariff on imported goods, and a 60 percent tariff on products from China. He wants to deport huge numbers of immigrants. And he’s made it clear that he’d like to replace the Federal Reserve chair with someone more willing to take orders from him. It’s almost unimaginable to me that you would run on this agenda at a time when Americans are so mad about high prices. But I don’t think people really know that’s what Trump is vowing to do.

    So to drill into the weeds of Trump’s plans, I decided to call up an old friend. Matt Yglesias is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist and the author of the Slow Boring newsletter, where he’s been writing a lot about Trump’s proposals. We also used to host a policy podcast together, “The Weeds.”

    In this conversation, we discuss what would happen to the economy, especially in terms of inflation, if Trump actually did what he says he wants to do; what we can learn from how Trump managed the economy in his first term; and why more people aren’t sounding the alarm.

    Mentioned:

    Trump’s new economic plan is terrible” by Matthew Yglesias

    Never mind: Wall Street titans shake off qualms and embrace Trump” by Sam Sutton

    How Far Trump Would Go” by Eric Cortellessa

    Book Recommendations:

    Take Back the Game by Linda Flanagan

    1177 B.C. by Eric H. Cline

    The Rise of the G.I. Army, 1940-1941 by Paul Dickson

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero, Adam Posen and Michael Strain.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 21, 2024

    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

    The Biggest Political Divide Is Not Left vs. Right

    The biggest divide in our politics isn’t between Democrats and Republicans, or even left and right. It’s between people who follow politics closely, and those who pay almost no attention to it. If you’re in the former camp — and if you’re reading this, you probably are — the latter camp can seem inscrutable. These people hardly ever look at political news. They hate discussing politics. But they do care about issues and candidates, and they often vote.

    As the 2024 election takes shape, this bloc appears crucial to determining who wins the presidency. An NBC News poll from April found that 15 percent of voters don’t follow political news, and Donald Trump was winning them by 26 points.

    Yanna Krupnikov studies exactly this kind of voter. She’s a professor of communication and media at the University of Michigan and an author, with John Barry Ryan, of “The Other Divide: Polarization and Disengagement in American Politics.” The book examines how the chasm between the deeply involved and the less involved shapes politics in America. I’ve found it to be a helpful guide for understanding one of the most crucial dynamics emerging in this year’s election: the swing to Trump from President Biden among disengaged voters.

    In this conversation, we discuss how politically disengaged voters relate to politics; where they get their information about politics and how they form opinions; and whether major news events, like Trump’s recent conviction, might sway them.

    Mentioned:

    The ‘Need for Chaos’ and Motivations to Share Hostile Political Rumors” by Michael Bang Petersen, Mathias Osmundsen and Kevin Arceneaux

    Hooked by Markus Prior

    The Political Influence of Lifestyle Influencers? Examining the Relationship Between Aspirational Social Media Use and Anti-Expert Attitudes and Beliefs” by Ariel Hasell and Sedona Chinn

    One explanation for the 2024 election’s biggest mystery” by Eric Levitz

    Book Recommendations:

    What Goes Without Saying by Taylor N. Carlson and Jaime E. Settle

    Through the Grapevine by Taylor N. Carlson

    Sorry I’m Late, I Didn’t Want to Come by Jessica Pan

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 18, 2024

    The View From the Israeli Right

    The View From the Israeli Right

    On Tuesday I got back from an eight-day trip to Israel and the West Bank. I happened to be there on the day that Benny Gantz resigned from the war cabinet and called on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to schedule new elections, breaking the unity government that Israel had had since shortly after Oct. 7.

    There is no viable left wing in Israel right now. There is a coalition that Netanyahu leads stretching from right to far right and a coalition that Gantz leads stretching from center to right. In the early months of the war, Gantz appeared ascendant as support for Netanyahu cratered. But now Netanyahu’s poll numbers are ticking back up.

    So one thing I did in Israel was deepen my reporting on Israel’s right. And there, Amit Segal’s name kept coming up. He’s one of Israel’s most influential political analysts and the author of “The Story of Israeli Politics” is coming out in English.

    Segal and I talked about the political differences between Gantz and Netanyahu, the theory of security that’s emerging on the Israeli right, what happened to the Israeli left, the threat from Iran and Hezbollah and how Netanyahu is trying to use President Biden’s criticism to his political advantage.

    Mentioned:

    Biden May Spur Another Netanyahu Comeback” by Amit Segal

    Book Recommendations:

    The Years of Lyndon Johnson Series by Robert A. Caro

    The World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig

    The Object of Zionism by Zvi Efrat

    The News from Waterloo by Brian Cathcart

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 14, 2024

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

    There’s something weird happening with the economy. On a personal level, most Americans say they’re doing pretty well right now. And according to the data, that’s true. Wages have gone up faster than inflation. Unemployment is low, the stock market is generally up so far this year, and people are buying more stuff.

    And yet in surveys, people keep saying the economy is bad. A recent Harris poll for The Guardian found that around half of Americans think the S. & P. 500 is down this year, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high. Fifty-six percent think we’re in a recession.

    There are many theories about why this gap exists. Maybe political polarization is warping how people see the economy or it’s a failure of President Biden’s messaging, or there’s just something uniquely painful about inflation. And while there’s truth in all of these, it felt like a piece of the story was missing.

    And for me, that missing piece was an article I read right before the pandemic. An Atlantic story from February 2020 called “The Great Affordability Crisis Breaking America.” It described how some of Americans’ biggest-ticket expenses — housing, health care, higher education and child care — which were already pricey, had been getting steadily pricier for decades.

    At the time, prices weren’t the big topic in the economy; the focus was more on jobs and wages. So it was easier for this trend to slip notice, like a frog boiling in water, quietly, putting more and more strain on American budgets. But today, after years of high inflation, prices are the biggest topic in the economy. And I think that explains the anger people feel: They’re noticing the price of things all the time, and getting hammered with the reality of how expensive these things have become.

    The author of that Atlantic piece is Annie Lowrey. She’s an economics reporter, the author of Give People Money, and also my wife. In this conversation, we discuss how the affordability crisis has collided with our post-pandemic inflationary world, the forces that shape our economic perceptions, why people keep spending as if prices aren’t a strain and what this might mean for the presidential election.

    Mentioned:

    It Will Never Be a Good Time to Buy a House” by Annie Lowrey

    Book Recommendations:

    Franchise by Marcia Chatelain

    A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel

    Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 07, 2024

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    The Republican Party’s Decay Began Long Before Trump

    After Donald Trump was convicted last week in his hush-money trial, Republican leaders wasted no time in rallying behind him. There was no chance the Republican Party was going to replace Trump as their nominee at this point. Trump has essentially taken over the G.O.P.; his daughter-in-law is even co-chair of the Republican National Committee.

    How did the Republican Party get so weak that it could fall victim to a hostile takeover?

    Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld are the authors of “The Hollow Parties: The Many Pasts and Disordered Present of American Party Politics,” which traces how both major political parties have been “hollowed out” over the decades, transforming once-powerful gatekeeping institutions into mere vessels for the ideologies of specific candidates. And they argue that this change has been perilous for our democracy.

    In this conversation, we discuss how the power of the parties has been gradually chipped away; why the Republican Party became less ideological and more geared around conflict; the merits of a stronger party system; and more.

    Mentioned:

    Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden” by The Ezra Klein Show

    Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work” by The Ezra Klein Show with Elaine Kamarck

    Book Recommendations:

    The Two Faces of American Freedom by Aziz Rana

    Rainbow’s End by Steven P. Erie

    An American Melodrama by Lewis Chester, Godfrey Hodgson, Bruce Page

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show’‘ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker, Kate Sinclair and Rollin Hu. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enJune 04, 2024

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    Your Mind Is Being Fracked

    The steady dings of notifications. The 40 tabs that greet you when you open your computer in the morning. The hundreds of unread emails, most of them spam, with subject lines pleading or screaming for you to click. Our attention is under assault these days, and most of us are familiar with the feeling that gives us — fractured, irritated, overwhelmed.

    D. Graham Burnett calls the attention economy an example of “human fracking”: With our attention in shorter and shorter supply, companies are going to even greater lengths to extract this precious resource from us. And he argues that it’s now reached a point that calls for a kind of revolution. “This is creating conditions that are at odds with human flourishing. We know this,” he tells me. “And we need to mount new forms of resistance.”

    Burnett is a professor of the history of science at Princeton University and is working on a book about the laboratory study of attention. He’s also a co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention, which is a kind of grass roots, artistic effort to create a curriculum for studying attention.

    In this conversation, we talk about how the 20th-century study of attention laid the groundwork for today’s attention economy, the connection between changing ideas of attention and changing ideas of the self, how we even define attention (this episode is worth listening to for Burnett’s collection of beautiful metaphors alone), whether the concern over our shrinking attention spans is simply a moral panic, what it means to teach attention and more.

    Mentioned:

    Friends of Attention

    The Battle for Attention” by Nathan Heller

    Powerful Forces Are Fracking Our Attention. We Can Fight Back.” by D. Graham Burnett, Alyssa Loh and Peter Schmidt

    Scenes of Attention edited by D. Graham Burnett and Justin E. H. Smith

    Book Recommendations:

    Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll

    Objectivity by Lorraine Daston and Peter L. Galison

    The Confidence-Man by Herman Melville

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 31, 2024

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    ‘Artificial Intelligence?’ No, Collective Intelligence.

    A.I.-generated art has flooded the internet, and a lot of it is derivative, even boring or offensive. But what could it look like for artists to collaborate with A.I. systems in making art that is actually generative, challenging, transcendent?

    Holly Herndon offered one answer with her 2019 album “PROTO.” Along with Mathew Dryhurst and the programmer Jules LaPlace, she built an A.I. called “Spawn” trained on human voices that adds an uncanny yet oddly personal layer to the music. Beyond her music and visual art, Herndon is trying to solve a problem that many creative people are encountering as A.I. becomes more prominent: How do you encourage experimentation without stealing others’ work to train A.I. models? Along with Dryhurst, Jordan Meyer and Patrick Hoepner, she co-founded Spawning, a company figuring out how to allow artists — and all of us creating content on the internet — to “consent” to our work being used as training data.

    In this conversation, we discuss how Herndon collaborated with a human chorus and her “A.I. baby,” Spawn, on “PROTO”; how A.I. voice imitators grew out of electronic music and other musical genres; why Herndon prefers the term “collective intelligence” to “artificial intelligence”; why an “opt-in” model could help us retain more control of our work as A.I. trawls the internet for data; and much more.

    Mentioned:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt” by Holly Herndon

    xhairymutantx” by Holly Herndon and Mat Dryhurst, for the Whitney Museum of Art

    Fade” by Holly Herndon

    Swim” by Holly Herndon

    Jolene” by Holly Herndon and Holly+

    Movement” by Holly Herndon

    Chorus” by Holly Herndon

    Godmother” by Holly Herndon

    The Precision of Infinity” by Jlin and Philip Glass

    Holly+

    Book Recommendations:

    Intelligence and Spirit by Reza Negarestani

    Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky

    Plurality by E. Glen Weyl, Audrey Tang and ⿻ Community

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Jack Hamilton.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 24, 2024

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    A Conservative Futurist and a Supply-Side Liberal Walk Into a Podcast …

    “The Jetsons” premiered in 1962. And based on the internal math of the show, George Jetson, the dad, was born in 2022. He’d be a toddler right now. And we are so far away from the world that show imagined. There were a lot of future-trippers in the 1960s, and most of them would be pretty disappointed by how that future turned out.

    So what happened? Why didn’t we build that future?

    The answer, I think, lies in the 1970s. I’ve been spending a lot of time studying that decade in my work, trying to understand why America is so bad at building today. And James Pethokoukis has also spent a lot of time looking at the 1970s, in his work trying to understand why America is less innovative today than it was in the postwar decades. So Pethokoukis and I are asking similar questions, and circling the same time period, but from very different ideological vantages.

    Pethokoukis is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and author of the book “The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised.” He also writes a newsletter called Faster, Please! “The two screamingly obvious things that we stopped doing is we stopped spending on science, research and development the way we did in the 1960s,” he tells me, “and we began to regulate our economy as if regulation would have no impact on innovation.”

    In this conversation, we debate why the ’70s were such an inflection point; whether this slowdown phenomenon is just something that happens as countries get wealthier; and what the government’s role should be in supporting and regulating emerging technologies like A.I.

    Mentioned:

    U.S. Infrastructure: 1929-2017” by Ray C. Fair

    Book Recommendations

    Why Information Grows by Cesar Hidalgo

    The Expanse series by James S.A. Corey

    The American Dream Is Not Dead by Michael R. Strain

    Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

    You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

    The Ezra Klein Show
    enMay 21, 2024

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    A Republican Pollster on Trump’s Undimmed Appeal

    A Republican Pollster on Trump’s Undimmed Appeal

    The fact that Donald Trump is the front-runner for the G.O.P. nomination in 2024 has created a chasm in our politics. In the past, Democrats and Republicans at least understood why members of the other party liked their chosen candidates. Most conservatives weren’t confused why liberals liked Barack Obama, and vice versa for George W. Bush. But for a lot of Democrats, it feels impossible to imagine why anyone would cast a vote for Trump. And as a result, the two parties don’t just feel hostile toward each other; they feel increasingly unknowable.

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    Mentioned:

    Researcher application

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    Subtract by Leidy Klotz

    Party of the People by Patrick Ruffini

    Welcome to the O.C. by Josh Schwartz, Stephanie Savage and Alan Sepinwall

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    This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.