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    #172, 20 Years Later (Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying DarkHorse Livestream)

    en-usMay 09, 2023
    What mistakes did the doctors acknowledge during the livestream?
    Why won't there be a Q&A session in this episode?
    What product did Dr. Weinstein promote from the sponsor Cured?
    How does the scientific community's dismissal affect research progress?
    What implications does technology have on natural communication between mothers and babies?

    • Doctors Weinstein and Heine discuss mistakes and upcoming livestreamThey acknowledged errors, announced no Q&A, and promoted their sponsor Cured and their product RISE for mental enhancement

      During this livestream, doctors Bret Weinstein and Heather Heine discussed various topics while acknowledging their shared mistakes and the audience's lack of correction. They also announced that they would not be doing a Q&A session during this episode but would return on Saturday for their usual livestream and Q&A. Dr. Weinstein also mentioned his new post on Natural Selections and introduced their sponsor, Cured, and their product RISE, which he praised for its ability to enhance mental clarity, energy, and focus. The values that Cured holds highest are nature, responsibility, and service. Overall, the doctors shared their experiences and promoted their sponsor while looking forward to their upcoming livestream and Q&A session.

    • Affordable and transparent solutions in CBD and hearing aids industriesCured Nutrition offers discounted, third-party tested CBD products and MD Hearing Aid provides affordable hearing aids without a prescription, expanding access to these essentials for a wider audience

      Both Cured Nutrition and MD Hearing Aid prioritize affordability and transparency in their respective industries. Cured Nutrition offers third-party tested CBD products and a 20% discount for Dark Horse listeners, ensuring customers have access to high-quality, contaminant-free CBD. MD Hearing Aid, founded by an ENT surgeon, provides effective hearing aids at a fraction of the cost of traditional options, with no prescription required. Their latest promotion offers a buy one, get one deal and a free extra charging case for Dark Horse listeners. Both companies are making a significant impact by bringing their products to a wider audience. For Cured Nutrition, it's ensuring everyone can access the CBD product that suits their needs, and for MD Hearing Aid, it's providing affordable hearing solutions to those who might not otherwise be able to afford them.

    • Exploring the Transformations of NatureSpring brings remarkable changes in nature, from observing harbor seals and their interactions with humans and dogs, to witnessing bald eagles hunting. Appreciating these moments highlights the intricate relationships between species and their environments.

      Nature is full of vibrant changes and wonders, as seen through the speaker's experiences during their recent travels. The changing seasons, especially spring, bring about remarkable transformations in the natural world. The speaker shares their fascination with observing harbor seals and their curiosity towards humans and dogs, as well as the presence of bald eagles hunting in their area. These observations highlight the intricate relationships between various species and their environments, making it a time of great activity and wonder. Additionally, the speaker expresses their desire to form a connection with the harbor seals and reflects on the importance of appreciating the natural world around us.

    • Sea stars' mysterious disappearance in Pacific NorthwestSea stars, once abundant and vital to their ecosystems, are disappearing due to wasting disease, leaving unknown consequences for Pacific Northwest marine life.

      Sea stars, once abundant and diverse in the waters around the Pacific Northwest, have experienced a significant die-off beginning in 2013. This die-off resulted in the disappearance of these animals from many areas, leaving only a few individuals visible. The causes of this die-off, known as wasting disease, are not fully understood, and researchers are still trying to determine the mechanisms behind it. Sea stars play a crucial role as keystone predators in their ecosystems, and their absence could have far-reaching consequences. The speaker's personal experience of observing the decline of sea stars in the Pacific Northwest highlights the alarming impact of this phenomenon. Despite the ongoing research, the future of sea stars in the region remains uncertain.

    • Sea stars return in Puget Sound and San Juan IslandsThe return of sea stars in the Pacific Northwest offers hope amidst ecological challenges, but the cause for their disappearance and reappearance remains unclear.

      The return of sea stars in the Sailor's Sea, including the Puget Sound and San Juan and Gulf Islands, offers hope amidst ecological challenges. While the cause for their disappearance and reappearance is unclear, the sighting of these organisms in abundance was a positive sign. The speaker also shared their experience of being disconnected from technology during a trip, which initially caused alarm but ultimately proved to be a refreshing change. Additionally, the speaker discussed a New York Times article reporting on a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, which challenged the popular hypothesis that longer telomeres lead to increased longevity. However, the speaker argued that the title and subheading of the article were misleading, as the balance between telomeres and their role in tumor suppression and tissue repair is key to understanding their role in vitality. Overall, the speaker's experiences and reflections highlight the importance of maintaining hope in the face of environmental and scientific challenges, and the need for accurate communication of scientific findings.

    • The role of telomeres in aging and longevity is more complex than previously thoughtTelomeres do not solely determine lifespan, but rather serve as a balance between tumor suppression and tissue repair

      The idea of stopping the cellular clock to extend lifespan, as popularly portrayed in some scientific reports and grant proposals, is a simplification that overlooks the complex trade-offs between tumor suppression and tissue repair. According to a 2000 study published in the Journal of Experimental Gerontology by Debbie Cieseck and Dr. Cynthia Kenyon, telomeres, the protective caps on the ends of chromosomes, do not determine lifespan as previously thought. Instead, they serve as a balance between the hazards of unchecked cell growth and tissue repair. The misconception arises from the fact that somatic cells do shorten with each division, but they do not die when telomeres reach a critical length. Instead, they enter a different phase, which was misinterpreted as cell death. However, this phase is actually an adaptive response to limit the growth of cells with damaged repair capacity and prevent the development of cancer. Therefore, it is essential to maintain a balance of telomere length for optimal health and longevity. The New York Times report on a recent NEJM paper highlights this misconception, but the findings were already published over 20 years ago. The trade-off between tumor suppression and tissue repair is a crucial aspect of understanding aging and longevity, and it is essential to acknowledge the complexities of these processes.

    • The reserve capacity hypothesis and its relationship to aging and cancerThe reserve capacity hypothesis suggests a trade-off between aging and cancer, with short telomeres causing aging-related diseases and long telomeres increasing cancer risk. This hypothesis was initially met with skepticism but gained traction after a 2002 publication and recent studies confirming its predictions.

      The reserve capacity hypothesis, proposed in the late 1990s, suggests that there is a fundamental trade-off between aging and cancer, with short telomeres leading to aging-related diseases and long telomeres increasing the risk of cancer. This hypothesis was initially met with skepticism and faced rejection from several scientific journals, including Nature. However, the hypothesis gained traction when it was published in the journal Experimental Gerontology in 2002. More recently, the New England Journal of Medicine published a study on a syndrome called long telomere syndrome, which is caused by a mutation that results in longer telomeres. This study found that people with this mutation were more prone to various types of cancers and other pathologies. Despite the New York Times reporting on this study, neither the article nor the accompanying editorial mentioned the reserve capacity hypothesis, which had predicted these findings over two decades ago. This highlights the importance of acknowledging and building upon existing scientific knowledge, rather than starting from scratch.

    • Giving credit where it's due in scienceProper citation is essential to maintain scientific integrity, prevent plagiarism, and recognize the origins of good ideas.

      While the scientific process involves predicting and demonstrating the explanatory power of ideas, it's essential to give credit to the original sources of those ideas. Citing is necessary to keep track of where good ideas come from and to prevent plagiarism. However, the scientific process can be manipulated, and it's not uncommon for researchers to skip citing the original sources or rely on reviews instead. This can lead to inaccuracies and the spread of misinformation. In the case of Debbie's paper from 2000, which built on work from the mid-late 90s, the importance of her contributions was actively ignored, which is a problem for the scientific community as a whole. Proper science is hypothesis-driven, and fields like Evolutionary Biology, which make predictions that have been borne out, deserve recognition for their practical applications. It's crucial to uphold the scientific process's integrity by giving credit where it's due and avoiding shortcuts that undermine the scientific community's progress.

    • Challenging Assumptions with Scientific PredictionsPredictions in research provide value by challenging assumptions and revealing new implications, even if initially dismissed. Their worth lies in their uncertainty and potential to challenge established beliefs.

      Predictions in scientific research are not made to see results early, but rather to help determine which theories align best with the underlying reality we cannot observe directly. The work on telomeres, for instance, came with predictions about mouse telomeres that were initially dismissed but later proven true, leading to significant implications for cancer research, wound healing, and pharmaceutical safety. However, a prediction's value lies in its riskiness – the more uncertain, the more valuable. The discovery that laboratory mice have shorter telomeres than previously believed challenged established assumptions and had far-reaching consequences, revealing that these mice are unreliable models for cancer and toxin testing due to their long telomeres and propensity for cancer. This highlights the importance of considering the theoretical context and potential implications of scientific predictions.

    • The overlooked story of telomeres and drug safetyImportant telomere discoveries have been overlooked for decades due to lack of transparency and accountability in the scientific community, potentially impacting drug safety.

      The complex story of telomeres and the potential negative effects of certain drugs, which is crucial for understanding drug safety, has been overlooked by both the scientific community and the media. The lack of transparency and accountability within the scientific community can result in important discoveries being overlooked or ignored for decades. The public relies on institutions like the FDA and science journalists to uncover and report on such findings. However, when science becomes an insider's club, with grant approvals, tenure reviews, and promotions influenced by personal relationships, the focus shifts away from the pursuit of truth towards maintaining the status quo. The importance of this story lies in its implications for drug safety and the significance of evolutionary theory, which has successfully predicted the mechanism behind these findings. It serves as a reminder of the importance of maintaining a rigorous and transparent scientific process, where discoveries are evaluated based on their merit rather than personal connections.

    • Skepticism Towards Unpopular HypothesesSkepticism towards unpopular hypotheses can hinder progress and lead to misunderstandings. It's important for scientists to acknowledge and build upon previous research, even if it's not immediately accepted.

      The scientific community's dismissal of a hypothesis, even when it's been around for decades, can hinder progress and lead to misunderstandings. The example given is the hypothesis that laboratory mice have unusually long telomeres, which was initially met with skepticism but has since been proven true and led to significant discoveries. This raises questions about the importance of acknowledging and building upon previous research, even if it's not immediately popular or accepted. The discussion also touches on the competitive nature of science and how it can sometimes lead researchers to overlook important findings that don't fit neatly into their current understanding. Ultimately, it's crucial for scientists to remain open-minded and willing to reevaluate their assumptions in light of new evidence.

    • Science Communication: The Importance of Facts Over NarrativeThe oversimplification and humanization of scientific stories in media can overshadow crucial findings, leading to potential consequences for public health, pharmaceutical safety, and evolutionary science. Scientists must have a solid track record and be able to back up surprising claims to maintain credibility.

      The way science is communicated to the public through media outlets like The New York Times often involves adding human interest elements and anecdotes, rather than just presenting the facts. This approach can make the stories more appealing and easier to sell, but it can also overshadow important scientific findings that may not fit the narrative. The speaker argues that this failure is not just at the journalism level, but also at the scientist level, where those holding the torch for science are allowing the narrative to be snuffed out. The implications of this issue are significant, as it can impact public health policy, pharmaceutical safety, and the evolutionary implications of scientific discoveries. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of scientists coming to arguments with a solid track record and being able to back up surprising claims, rather than being dismissed based on perceived credibility. Ultimately, the speaker expresses a sense of frustration with the current state of scientific communication and the potential consequences of overlooking important findings.

    • The importance of understanding the value of traditional practicesDisregarding traditional practices in the pursuit of progress can lead to unintended consequences, emphasizing the importance of open dialogue and finding common ground.

      The current scientific publication system, as it stands, may prioritize conformity over thoroughness and carefulness, potentially leading to the dissemination of flawed information. This was a major point of frustration during the COVID-19 pandemic, as bad science was often promoted through journalism. An article by Louise Perry titled "Modernity is Making You Sterile" serves as an excellent example of well-reasoned scholarship. Despite disagreeing with some of her points, the article showcases the importance of understanding the value of traditional practices and the potential risks of disregarding them in the pursuit of progress. The message aligns with the themes of our book, "A Hunter-Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century," and the work of G.K. Chesterton, who famously told a parable about two travelers encountering a fence, with one arguing it's in the way. The loss of valuable traditions in the face of rapid technological development can lead to unintended consequences, making it crucial for individuals from all perspectives to engage in open dialogue and find common ground.

    • Understanding the historical context and potential benefits of traditions before dismissing themConsider the historical significance and potential benefits of traditions before making decisions to eliminate them, and strive for a feminism that balances individual freedom with care and interdependency.

      We should carefully consider the reasons behind the existence of traditions and institutions before making decisions to eliminate them. For instance, the debate surrounding the relevance of the "lying in" practice after childbirth highlights the importance of understanding its historical context and potential benefits before dismissing it. Additionally, the discussion emphasizes the need for a feminism that balances individual freedom with care and interdependency, rather than prioritizing freedom above all else. Furthermore, the conversation underscores the complexities of global population issues, with both fertility declines and overpopulation presenting challenges that require nuanced solutions. Ultimately, the conversation encourages a thoughtful, historically informed approach to addressing the complex issues facing modern society.

    • Preserving Values While Adapting to Modern MotherhoodTraditional support systems for new mothers are essential, but adapting to modern challenges requires a thoughtful conversation. Community and engagement, not isolation, are key to successful motherhood.

      Isolating new mothers with newborns, especially those without support, can lead to issues such as postpartum depression. This is a modern problem, as traditional societies did not experience high rates of postpartum depression. However, going back to traditional gender roles is not a viable solution for many people. Instead, we need to find a way to preserve the values of the past while adapting to the present. This requires a thoughtful and nuanced conversation. For example, the availability of birth control has significantly altered the landscape of motherhood. Yet, we need to find a new mechanism for supporting new mothers that preserves what worked in the past and addresses the challenges of the present. Personal experiences, such as having a strong support system of family and friends, can make all the difference in the early stages of motherhood. It is essential to recognize that new mothers should not be expected to go it alone. Furthermore, it is important to note that in many traditional societies, new mothers did not lie in bed after giving birth but were active and engaged in their communities. This communicated important rhythms of life and provided subtle forms of support. In conclusion, finding a new way to support new mothers that preserves the values of the past while adapting to the present is a complex challenge. It requires a thoughtful and nuanced conversation that recognizes the importance of community and support in the early stages of motherhood.

    • Disconnect from natural processes leads to broken mechanismsBe aware of the arbitrary nature of technology and consider potential dangers before embracing new things, learning from past mistakes to minimize the negative consequences of progress

      Our modern society's reliance on technology and convenience has led us to disconnect from natural processes, such as babies' communication with their mothers about their needs to poop and piss. This disconnection results in unnatural and broken mechanisms, like diapers, which can have negative consequences. We cannot go back to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, but we must be aware that our current place in technology is arbitrary and constantly changing. This means we must be cautious about embracing new things without considering potential dangers and learn from past mistakes. For example, the assumption of superiority over other cultures, like the natives, has led to hubris and repeated errors. We must strive to minimize the carnage that comes with progress and continuously adapt and learn.

    • Overlooking complexities of water and detergent usage in dishwasher regulationsPolitical decisions oversimplifying complex issues can lead to ineffective or counterproductive policies, requiring a more holistic approach to address environmental concerns

      The focus on reducing water consumption in dishwasher regulations may overlook the complexities of water and detergent usage, potentially leading to unintended consequences. The speaker argues that water is essential and valuable, and reducing its use may require more of other resources, such as detergents. Additionally, the speaker suggests that political decisions often oversimplify complex issues, prioritizing easy-to-understand metrics over comprehensive analyses. This can result in ineffective or even counterproductive policies. Ultimately, a more holistic approach is needed to address environmental concerns, considering the interconnectedness of various resources and their impacts.

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    In this 223rd in a series of live discussions with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying (both PhDs in Biology), we talk about the state of the world through an evolutionary lens.

    In this episode, we discuss science and religion, materialism and other ways of understanding our world. Can analysis and quantification explain everything? Can narrative, intuition, and creativity? All are or should be part of the scientific process; science is incomplete with only one mode. We also discuss models, how they fail, how difficult they are to assess, and what one recent climate model has to say about the role of air pollution in Earth’s temperature. Enlightenment values require that we use our freedom to inquire about all things that we are curious about. Also: happy Beltane!

    *****

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    Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com

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    *****

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Third Man Syndrome and Shackleton: https://twitter.com/brianroemmele/status/1785827941718614291

    Clearer skies may be accelerating global warming: https://www.science.org/content/article/clearer-skies-may-be-accelerating-global-warming
     
    Hodnebrog et al 2024. Recent reductions in aerosol emissions have increased Earth’s energy imbalance. Communications Earth & Environment, 5(1):166: https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-024-01324-8

    Nature editorial: What happens when climate change and the mental-health crisis collide? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00993-x

    Animation about mental health and climate change: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/grantham/publications/all-publications/the-impact-of-climate-change-on-mental-health-and-emotional-wellbeing-current-evidence-and-implications-for-policy-and-practice.php

    Growing up is hard to do (do not pay others to do your thinking for you): https://naturalselections.substack.com/p/growing-up-is-hard-to-do

    Support the Show.

    We're Beating the WHO – With Dr. Kat Lindley

    We're Beating the WHO – With Dr. Kat Lindley

    Dr. Kat Lindley is the President of the Global Health Project. Bret Talks to her about the state of the World Health Organization Pandemic Treaty.

    Find Dr. Lindley on X: @KLVeritas (https://twitter.com/KLVeritas)

    *****

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    *****

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    Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.

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    Why Darwin was Right: The 222nd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    Why Darwin was Right: The 222nd Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

    In this 222nd in a series of live discussions with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying (both PhDs in Biology), we talk about the state of the world through an evolutionary lens.

    In this episode, we discuss evolution, and how we know that it is true. We discuss the different kinds of beliefs that people have—beliefs that attempt to reconcile with reality, vs beliefs that reconcile with social standing and comfort. If your beliefs put you on the outs with your friends, do you change your beliefs, or your friends? Are you willing to give up the cocktail party for reality? We also discuss research published in 2000 and funded by Fauci’s NIAID, which demonstrated that it was possible to make chimeric coronaviruses, swapping the spike protein from one to a different species entirely. Finally: sex-biased gene expression, in which genes are expressed differently in the two sexes, in anatomical systems as varied as brain, kidneys, and liver.
    *****

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    *****

    Join us on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.com/

    Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com

    Our book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, is available everywhere books are sold, including from Amazon: https://a.co/d/dunx3at

    Check out our store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://darkhorsestore.org

    *****

    Mentioned in this episode:

    Kennedy 2023. The Wuhan Cover-Up and the Terrifying Bio-Weapons Arms Race: https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510773981/the-wuhan-cover-up/

    Kuo et al 2000. Retargeting of coronavirus by substitution of the spike glycoprotein ectodomain: crossing the host cell species barrier. Journal of virology, 74(3):1393-1406: https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/jvi.74.3.1393-1406.2000

    Rodríguez-Montes et al 2023. Sex-biased gene expression across mammalian organ development and evolution. Science 382(6670), p.eadf1046: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adf1046

    Support the Show.

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