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    #208 Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Andy Grove, Bill Hewlett

    en-usSeptember 29, 2021

    Podcast Summary

    • Exploring the Skills of Successful Entrepreneurs and CEOs in the Tech IndustryThe book 'In the Company of Giants' reveals that while luck may contribute to a company's success, crucial skills like vision, adaptability, and innovation are essential for entrepreneurs and CEOs in the tech industry to build, manage, and develop successful businesses.

      That while luck may play a role in a company's success, it is not the only factor. Successful entrepreneurs and CEOs possess crucial skills that enable them to run a successful business. The book "In the Company of Giants" explores these skills by interviewing 16 technology founders. The computer industry was chosen as the focus due to its significant impact on society and the authors' proximity to Silicon Valley. The interviews delve into each founder's philosophy on company building, managing, and developing new technology, offering valuable insights to future entrepreneurs. The book, published in 1997, serves as a record of their wisdom, with some interviewees still operating today and others no longer with us. The authors found that these visionaries saw opportunities years before others, such as Steve Case, who founded America Online and recognized the potential of computers communicating with each other. The new paradigm of the 1990s was the notion that computers connected to others, communicating and sharing information, significantly increasing their value to users. This concept, which was already understood in 1997, is now a fundamental aspect of our daily lives.

    • The power of determination and self-belief in entrepreneurshipSuccessful entrepreneurs possess a relentless ambition and unwavering belief in their ideas, even in the face of challenges and setbacks. Surrounding yourself with extraordinary people is also crucial.

      Dogged determination and delusional self-belief are key traits for successful entrepreneurs, as exemplified by Steve Jobs. Despite facing numerous challenges and setbacks, Jobs' relentless ambition and unwavering belief in his ideas allowed him to create groundbreaking products and build a multi-billion dollar company. The interview with Jobs in 1997, when he was back at Apple but not yet the full-time CEO, highlights his advice for future entrepreneurs: find extraordinary people to surround yourself with. This advice, given in the context of Apple's acquisition of NeXT and the criticism it faced, underscores the importance of staying true to your vision and believing in your abilities, even in the face of skepticism. Jobs' story serves as a reminder that success often comes from defying the odds and maintaining a steadfast commitment to your goals.

    • Recruiting exceptional talent is key to startup successA small team of top performers can outperform a larger team of averages. Invest time and effort in recruiting and building a team of all-stars to determine startup success.

      According to Steve Jobs, recruiting and building a team of exceptional individuals is the most important job in a startup. The dynamic range between average and exceptional performance is significantly greater in technology companies and in certain domains, and a small team of top performers can outperform a larger team of average performers. Jobs emphasized the importance of collaborative recruiting, having a culture that values and recruits top talent, and creating an environment where work feels bigger than the individual. He believed that the first ten people in a startup determine its success or failure, and taking the time to find and hire all-stars is crucial. Jobs' focus on quality and exceptional people was reflected in Apple's rigorous standards and attention to detail, such as the six months spent designing the scroll bars for the Mac operating system. Overall, Jobs' message was clear: investing time and effort in recruiting and building a team of top performers is essential for startup success.

    • Finding and hiring great people is crucial for a startup's successLook for individuals with great results, evaluate potential, challenge interviewees, and hire those who can significantly contribute to the company's success.

      In a startup, finding and hiring great people is crucial for success, as they make a significant impact on a small company more than in a larger one. Steve Jobs emphasized the importance of quality and not settling for less than excellent team members. He suggested looking for people with great results and identifying their contributions. Additionally, evaluating potential, especially in the early stages of a company, is important, and potential hires should demonstrate intelligence, the ability to learn quickly, drive, and passion. Jobs also recommended challenging interviewees to test their conviction and firmness in the face of criticism. This approach can help identify candidates who are not easily intimidated and have a strong sense of self-confidence. Ultimately, the hiring process should focus on finding individuals who can contribute significantly to the company's success.

    • Unwavering conviction and determinationSuccess requires unyielding belief in ideas and the willingness to push harder and adapt when necessary

      Having unwavering conviction and the willingness to push harder and longer than others is a crucial trait for success, as exemplified by Steve Jobs and Kobe Bryant. Jobs believed in his ideas and was persistent in implementing them, even when faced with resistance. Similarly, Bryant refused to back down during a confrontation with Michael Jordan, demonstrating his unyielding determination. Additionally, it's essential for individuals and companies to question their methods and reasons for doing things, as Steve Jobs did when he discovered Federal Express could deliver Macs faster and cheaper than Apple's current distribution system. This willingness to adapt and make changes based on new information can lead to significant improvements and advantages.

    • Focus on core mission, not peripheral activitiesSuccessful companies prioritize their mission and avoid distractions. Apple forgot this and suffered. Employees need more than paychecks for engagement, and human capital is the primary asset. CEOs inspire and motivate with a clear vision.

      Successful companies, especially those in the tech industry, need to have a clear understanding of their core mission and focus on it, rather than getting distracted by other peripheral activities. Michael Dell shared his experience of how Apple forgot its primary goal of getting products to customers quickly and instead got bogged down in other areas like personal relationships and sales functions. He emphasized the importance of offering employees more than just a paycheck and stock options to keep them engaged and motivated. Dell also discussed the changing nature of business, where human capital becomes the primary asset, and individual contributors hold significant power due to their ability to create innovative products. He also highlighted the importance of a CEO's role in inspiring and motivating employees to see the bigger picture and perform better than they thought possible. Overall, the interview provided valuable insights into the mindset and leadership style of a successful entrepreneur.

    • The power of passion and belief in starting a companyPassionately believe in your idea, focus on customers, products, and strategy, and don't accept the impossible to achieve long-term success.

      Having passion and belief in your idea is crucial when starting a company. Steve Jobs emphasized this point in an interview, sharing his experience of pushing a glass company to produce high-quality glass for the iPhone in an unrealistically short timeframe. He believed in his product and refused to accept the impossible, ultimately leading to the impossible being achieved. Jobs also warned against starting a company without a clear passion or goal, stating that it's a challenging and mentally draining process. He believed that founders should manage the top line of their company, focusing on customers, products, and strategy, to ensure long-term success. The principles Jobs shared in the interview are essential for entrepreneurs, as they highlight the importance of passion, determination, and focus in building a successful business.

    • Impact of core values on business decisionsMaintaining a customer-focused mission and being open to learning and adapting are crucial for success in a dynamic business environment.

      A company's core values and focus can significantly impact its decisions and success. Steve Jobs, during his time at Apple, emphasized the importance of making the best products for customers. However, when Apple became successful, the focus shifted to making the most money. This change in values led to challenges in adapting to new technologies and building the next innovative product. Jobs emphasized the importance of learning from entrepreneurs who came before him and the need to trust one's own judgment in an ever-changing industry. Despite his insight into the future of technology, he acknowledged the uncertainty of predicting exact outcomes and the potential for rapid transformations. Overall, Jobs' perspective underscores the significance of maintaining a customer-focused mission and being open to learning and adapting in a dynamic business environment.

    • Frustration fuels entrepreneurshipIdentifying a need or opportunity and having determination can lead to successful entrepreneurship, even without an original idea.

      Frustration can be a powerful motivator for starting a business. Many successful entrepreneurs, like TJ Rogers of Cypress Semiconductor, have identified opportunities to improve upon existing products or industries and have taken the leap to create their own companies. Frustration with the status quo and the belief that one can build something better is a common theme among entrepreneurs. Additionally, the rigidity and politics of larger companies can present opportunities for entrepreneurs to disrupt industries with innovative technologies. It's not necessary to have an original idea to start a business, as demonstrated by HP's early products being automatic urinal flushers and bowling pin setters. Instead, identifying a need or opportunity and having the determination to pursue it can lead to success.

    • Believing in yourself before having proofSelf-belief fuels success, even before proven ability. Entrepreneurs and innovators trust their judgment and pursue their ideas despite opposition or doubt.

      Self-belief and a strong sense of drive are crucial traits for entrepreneurs and innovators. As seen in the stories of TJ Rodgers, George Dorio, Steve Jobs, and Jay Z, these individuals believed in their abilities before they had the proof, and this belief fueled their success. Rodgers, in particular, was frustrated with larger companies that missed opportunities due to political infighting and lack of proficiency, but he ultimately decided to trust his own judgment and pursue his ideas. Jay Z, in his role as a mentor to the next generation of artists, recognized that his protege might believe his work was superior to his own, and he embraced this mindset as a natural part of the creative process. The belief comes before ability, and this belief drives individuals to work hard and strive for greatness.

    • Staying Competitive, Focusing on the Customer, and Long-Term PerseveranceSuccess comes from staying competitive, focusing on the customer, and persevering through slow growth or initial setbacks. Long-term success requires continuous learning and a commitment to innovation.

      The key to business success lies in competency, continuous learning, and creating a compelling customer experience. The interviewees in this text, including the founder of AOL and Intuit, emphasized the importance of staying competitive, avoiding complacency, and focusing on the customer. They also highlighted the importance of perseverance and not giving up, even when faced with slow growth or initial setbacks. Additionally, they stressed that most profits come from the future and that it's essential to hold on to a good idea and work on it for the long term. Overall, the message is to stay focused on improving and innovating, keep learning, and never lose sight of the customer experience.

    • Learning from customers for business successEntrepreneurs like Scott Cook, Steve Jobs, and Michael Dell emphasized the importance of understanding customers and delivering value to them through direct interaction and technology. By genuinely believing in the value of their product and focusing on customer needs, they achieved significant business breakthroughs.

      Understanding your customers is key to business success. According to Scott Cook, the co-founder of Intuit, constantly studying and engaging with customers gives you a significant advantage in creating solutions to their problems. Cook emphasizes the importance of direct interaction with customers, stating that great business breakthroughs occur at the intersection of what customers truly want and what technology can effectively deliver. He shares that Intuit's success came from their engineers visiting and interviewing customers, which allowed them to understand the problems they faced and create solutions that met their needs. Cook's belief is that if you genuinely believe you've built something that makes someone's life better, you have a moral obligation to get good at marketing and spreading the word. This idea can be seen in Steve Jobs' approach to Apple as well. Michael Dell's success story also highlights the importance of better distribution and focusing on the customer's needs. Overall, the common thread between these entrepreneurs is their dedication to understanding their customers and delivering value to them.

    • Identifying economic opportunities and focusing on customer experienceDell's success story shows that prioritizing economics and customer experience can lead to substantial business growth, as Dell grew from $6M to $600M in sales by selling directly to consumers and offering better prices and service.

      Michael Dell's success story highlights the importance of identifying economic opportunities and focusing on the customer experience. Dell, who started selling computers from his dorm room in 1984, saw an opportunity to sell directly to consumers, offering better prices and service than retailers. His innovative business model, which prioritized economics over the traditional product-customer-economics approach, allowed him to grow his sales from $6 million in the first year to almost $600 million within seven years. Dell's competitors underestimated the potential of his business model, but Dell's focus on economics and customer experience enabled him to continue growing, while many competitors failed to keep up. This story demonstrates that identifying economic opportunities and prioritizing the customer experience can lead to significant business success.

    • Staying close to customers and focusing on core business advantagesSuccess comes from maintaining a clear business focus, staying close to customers, and making quick decisions in a startup environment. Strong work ethic and intellectual curiosity also contribute to successful leadership.

      Focusing on the core business and maintaining a clear advantage can lead to significant success. Michael Dell and Bill Gates both emphasized the importance of staying close to customers and not being detached from them. Dell's advantage was selling directly to customers instead of through dealers, while Gates' advantage was focusing solely on software instead of both hardware and software like his competitors. Both entrepreneurs also emphasized the importance of experimentation and quick decision-making in a startup environment. Additionally, having a strong work ethic and intellectual curiosity, like Gates' penchant for reading biographies, can contribute to successful leadership.

    • Staying focused on unique value proposition and core competenciesSuccessful companies prioritize their unique offerings and core strengths to outperform competitors and adapt to changing markets

      Successful companies focus on what they're competing against, rather than who they're competing with. Herb Keller, the founder of Southwest Airlines, understood this concept when investors suggested raising prices to increase profits. He knew that if he did, customers might opt for cheaper ground travel instead. Similarly, Microsoft, in its early days, outsourced work to generate more power than if they had done it in-house. Bill Gates, Microsoft's founder, kept a list of mistakes and emphasized the importance of staying focused on the core business. He also believed that building a company required a certain level of craziness and that the opportunity for growth was always in front of them. Andy Grove, a professor who later joined Intel, also had an impressive background, having escaped Hungary during the Soviet invasion and graduating first in his class at Cornell University. These business leaders understood that staying focused on their unique value proposition and core competencies was crucial for their success.

    • Identifying Passion and Adaptability in BusinessTo build a successful business, identify your passion, stay adaptable, learn from industry leaders, and focus on your goals.

      Starting a successful company and making it last requires a clear vision, determination, and adaptability. Grove, a key figure in the semiconductor industry, emphasized the importance of identifying what one truly wants to do and being passionate about it. He also warned that business decisions aren't always obvious and that major companies, even those facing challenges, have untapped potential. Grove's experience at Intel and Olson's experience at Digital Equipment Corporation illustrate the importance of being open to change and learning from influential figures in business management. Grove's recommendation for young entrepreneurs is to focus on their goals and use a startup as a means to achieve them, rather than an end result. Additionally, he advised against micromanaging and instead, seeking inspiration from proven business leaders. Both Grove and Olson's experiences highlight the importance of resilience, adaptability, and a clear vision in building a successful and lasting business.

    • Learning from Sloan: The Importance of Delegation and Humility in LeadershipEffective leaders recognize their limitations, delegate authority, and trust others to accelerate growth and profitability. Investing in customer training builds loyalty and fosters continuous skill development.

      Effective leadership involves recognizing and addressing the limitations of one's own abilities. Ken Olsen, the founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, learned this lesson from Alfred Sloan's successful implementation of decentralized management at General Motories. Olsen's business was thriving, but as it grew, he became overwhelmed by the complexity of making every decision. By adopting Sloan's model and delegating authority to business units, Olsen was able to accelerate growth and profitability. This experience taught him the importance of humility and the value of trusting and empowering others. Another key insight from Olsen's leadership philosophy was the power of teaching as a marketing tool. By investing in intensive training for customers, Digital Equipment Corporation attracted a loyal customer base and fostered a culture of continuous skill development. Ultimately, Olsen's success came from his ability to learn from the past, challenge common assumptions, and adapt to changing circumstances.

    • The importance of continuous learning and personal growth through readingSetting a reading goal and investing in yourself through books can lead to personal growth and progress over time.

      The guest on this podcast has an ambitious goal of reading 1,208 books. He has already read 208 books and plans to continue his reading journey. This is a great reminder of the importance of continuous learning and personal growth through reading. It's never too late to start a new habit or set a new goal for yourself. Whether it's reading, learning a new skill, or pursuing a passion project, taking small steps every day can lead to significant progress over time. So, if you're feeling inspired, consider setting a reading goal for yourself and start making progress today. Remember, every book you read is an investment in yourself and your future.

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    (2:30) Sam Walton built his business on a very simple idea: Buy cheap. Sell low. Every day. With a smile.

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    (5:30) His dad taught him the secret to life was work, work, work.

    (5:30) Sam felt the world was something he could conquer.

    (6:30) The Great Depression was a big leveler of people. Sam chose to rise above it. He was determined to be a success.

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    (15:30) He was crazy about satisfying customers.

    (17:30) The lawyer saw Sam clenching and unclenching his fists, staring at his hands. Sam straightened up. “No,” he said. “I’m not whipped. I found Newport, and I found the store. I can find another good town and another store. Just wait and see!”

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    (33:30) At the start we were so amateurish and so far behind K Mart just ignored us. They let us stay out here, while we developed and learned our business. They gave us a 10 year period to grow.

    (37:30) And so how dedicated was Sam to keeping costs low? Walmart is called that in part because fewer letters means cheaper signs on the outside of a store.

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    (2:00) My father was a self-made man who had known extreme poverty in his youth and had a practically limitless capacity for hard work.

    (6:00) I acted as my own geologist, legal advisor, drilling superintendent, explosives expert, roughneck and roustabout.

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    (20:00) Optimism is a moral duty. Pessimism aborts opportunity.

    (21:00) I studied the lives of great men and women. And I found that the men and women who got to the top were those who did the jobs they had in hand, with everything they had of energy and enthusiasm and hard work.

    (22:00) 98 percent of our attention was devoted to the task at hand. We are believers in Carlyle's Prescription, that the job a man is to do is the job at hand and not see what lies dimly in the distance. — Charlie Munger

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    (43:00) Years ago, businessmen automatically kept administrative overhead to an absolute minimum. The present day trend is in exactly the opposite direction. The modern business mania is to build greater and ever greater paper shuffling empires.

    (44:00) Les Schwab Pride In Performance: Keep It Going!by Les Schwab (Founders #330) 

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    (51:00) There is always something wrong everywhere.

    (51:00) Don't interrupt the compounding. It’s all about the long term. You should keep a fortress of cash, reinvest in your business, and use debt sparingly. Doing so will help you survive to reap the long-term benefits of your business.

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    (55:00) The line that divides majority opinion from mass hysteria is often so fine as to be virtually invisible.

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    (8:00) On his dad sending him to military school: The strict, regimented environment was good for me.

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    -They have an innate capacity to think on a large scale

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    (36:00) My business interests created problems [in my marriages]. I was drilling several wells and it was by no means uncommon for me to stay on the sites overnight or even for two days or more.

    (38:00) A hatred of failure has always been part of my nature and one of the more pronounced motivating forces in my life.  Once I have committed myself to any undertaking, a powerful inner drive cuts in and I become intent on seeing it through to a satisfactory conclusion.

    (38:00) My own nature is such that I am able to concentrate on whatever is before me and am not easily distracted from it.

    (42:00) There are times when certain cards sit unclaimed in the common pile, when certain properties become available that will never be available again. A good businessman feels these moments like a fall in the barometric pressure. A great businessman is dumb enough to act on them even when he cannot afford to. — The Fish That Ate the Whale: The Life and Times of America's Banana King by Rich Cohen. (Founders #255)

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    (54:00) My father's influence and example where the principle forces that formed my nature and character.

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    "Learning from history is a form of leverage." — Charlie Munger. Founders Notes gives you the superpower to learn from history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand.

    Get access to Founders Notes here

    You can search all my notes and highlights from every book I've ever read for the podcast. 

    You can also ask SAGE any question and SAGE will read all my notes, highlights, and every transcript from every episode for you.

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    (0:01) At the age of twelve I was an orphan.

    (1:00) My uncles made me become self-reliant very early in life. Looking back, I believe that it is to this, that much of my success is due.

    (9:00) The idea of wearing a watch on one's wrist was thought to be contrary to the conception of masculinity.

    (10:00) Prior to World War 1 wristwatches for men did not exist.

    (11:00) Business is problems. The best companies are just effective problem solving machines.

    (12:00) My personal opinion is that pocket watches will almost completely disappear and that wrist watches will replace them definitively! I am not mistaken in this opinion and you will see that I am right." —Hans Wilsdorf, 1914

    (14:00) The highest order bit is belief: I had very early realized the manifold possibilities of the wristlet watch and, feeling sure that they would materialize in time, I resolutely went on my way. Rolex was thus able to get several years ahead of other watch manufacturers who persisted in clinging to the pocket watch as their chief product.

    (16:00) Clearly, the companies for whom the economics of twenty-four-hour news would have made the most sense were the Big Three broadcasters. They already had most of what was needed— studios, bureaus, reporters, anchors almost everything but a belief in cable.   —  Ted Turner's Autobiography (Founders #327)

    (20:00) Business Breakdowns #65 Rolex: Timeless Excellence

    (27:00)   Rolex was effectively the first watch brand to have real marketing dollars put behind a watch. Rolex did this in a concentrated way and they've continued to do it in a way that is simply just unmatched by others in their industry.

    (28:00) It's tempting during recession to cut back on consumer advertising. At the start of each of the last three recessions, the growth of spending on such advertising had slowed by an average of 27 percent. But consumer studies of those recessions had showed that companies that didn't cut their ads had, in the recovery, captured the most market share. So we didn't cut our ad budget. In fact, we raised it to gain brand recognition, which continued advertising sustains. — Four Seasons: The Story of a Business Philosophy by Isadore Sharp. (Founders #184)

    (32:00) Social proof is a form of leverage. — Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charlie Munger. (Founders #329)

    (34:00) What really matters is Hans understood the opportunity better than anybody else, and invested heavily in developing the technology to bring his ideas to fruition.

    (35:00) On keeping the main thing the main thing for decades: In developing and extending my business, I have always had certain aims in mind, a course from which I never deviated.

    (41:00) Rolex wanted to only be associated with the best. They ran an ad with the headline: Men who guide the destinies of the world, where Rolex watches.

    (43:00) Opportunity creates more opportunites. The Oyster unlocked the opportunity for the Perpetual.

    (44:00) The easier you make something for the customer, the larger the market gets: “My vision was to create the first fully packaged computer. We were no longer aiming for the handful of hobbyists who liked to assemble their own computers, who knew how to buy transformers and keyboards. For every one of them there were a thousand people who would want the machine to be ready to run.” — Steve Jobs

    (48:00) More sources:

    Rolex Jubilee: Vade Mecum by Hans Wilsdorf

    Rolex Magazine: The Hans Wilsdorf Years

    Hodinkee: Inside the Manufacture. Going Where Few Have Gone Before -- Inside All Four Rolex Manufacturing Facilities 

    Vintage Watchstraps Blog: Hans Wilsdorf and Rolex

    Business Breakdowns #65 Rolex: Timeless Excellence

    Luxury Strategy: Break the Rules of Marketing to Build Luxury Brands by Jean Noel Kapferer and Vincent Bastien 

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    #350 How To Sell Like Steve Jobs

    #350 How To Sell Like Steve Jobs

    What I learned from reading The Presentation Secrets of Steve Jobs: How to Be Insanely Great in Front of Any Audience by Carmine Gallo 

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    (1:00) You've got to start with the customer experience and work back toward the technology—not the other way around.  —Steve Jobs in 1997

    (6:00) Why should I care = What does this do for me?

    (6:00) The Match King: Ivar Kreuger, The Financial Genius Behind a Century of Wall Street Scandals by Frank Partnoy.  (Founders #348)

    (7:00) Easy to understand, easy to spread.

    (8:00) An American Saga: Juan Trippe and His Pan Am Empire by Robert Daley 

    (8:00) The Fish That Ate the Whale: The Life and Times of America's Banana King by Rich Cohen. (Founders #255)

    (9:00)  love how crystal clear this value proposition is. Instead of 3 days driving on dangerous road, it’s 1.5 hours by air. That’s a 48x improvement in time savings. This allows the company to work so much faster. The best B2B companies save businesses time.

    (10:00) Great Advertising Founders Episodes:

    Albert Lasker (Founders #206)

    Claude Hopkins (Founders #170 and #207)

    David Ogilvy (Founders #82, 89, 169, 189, 306, 343) 

    (12:00) Advertising which promises no benefit to the consumer does not sell, yet the majority of campaigns contain no promise whatever. (That is the most important sentence in this book. Read it again.) — Ogilvy on Advertising 

    (13:00) Repeat, repeat, repeat. Human nature has a flaw. We forget that we forget.

    (19:00) Start with the problem. Do not start talking about your product before you describe the problem your product solves.

    (23:00) The Invisible Billionaire: Daniel Ludwig by Jerry Shields. (Founders #292)

    (27:00) Being so well known has advantages of scale—what you might call an informational advantage.

    Psychologists use the term social proof. We are all influenced-subconsciously and, to some extent, consciously-by what we see others do and approve.

    Therefore, if everybody's buying something, we think it's better.

    We don't like to be the one guy who's out of step.

    The social proof phenomenon, which comes right out of psychology, gives huge advantages to scale.

    —  the NEW Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charlie Munger (Founders #329)

    (29:00) Marketing is theatre.

    (32:00) Belief is irresistible. — Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil Knight.  (Founders #186)

    (35:00) I think one of the things that really separates us from the high primates is that we’re tool builders. I read a study that measured the efficiency of locomotion for various species on the planet. The condor used the least energy to move a kilometer. And, humans came in with a rather unimpressive showing, about a third of the way down the list. It was not too proud a showing for the crown of creation. So, that didn’t look so good. But, then somebody at Scientific American had the insight to test the efficiency of locomotion for a man on a bicycle. And, a man on a bicycle, a human on a bicycle, blew the condor away, completely off the top of the charts.

    And that’s what a computer is to me. What a computer is to me is it’s the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with, it’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds.

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    #349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

    #349 How Steve Jobs Kept Things Simple

    What I learned from reading Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success by Ken Segall. 

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    Can you give me a summary of Warren Buffett's best ideas? (Substitute any founder covered on the podcast and you'll get a comprehensive and easy to read summary of their ideas) 

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    (1:30) Steve wanted Apple to make a product that was simply amazing and amazingly simple.

    (3:00) If you don’t zero in on your bureaucracy every so often, you will naturally build in layers. You never set out to add bureaucracy. You just get it. Period. Without even knowing it. So you always have to be looking to eliminate it.  — Sam Walton: Made In America by Sam Walton. (Founders #234)

    (5:00) Steve was always easy to understand. He would either approve a demo, or he would request to see something different next time. Whenever Steve reviewed a demo, he would say, often with highly detailed specificity, what he wanted to happen next.  — Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs by Ken Kocienda. (Founders #281)

    (7:00) Watch this video. Andy Miller tells GREAT Steve Jobs stories

    (10:00) Many are familiar with the re-emergence of Apple. They may not be as familiar with the fact that it has few, if any parallels.
    When did a founder ever return to the company from which he had been rudely rejected to engineer a turnaround as complete and spectacular as Apple's? While turnarounds are difficult in any circumstances they are doubly difficult in a technology company. It is not too much of a stretch to say that Steve founded Apple not once but twice. And the second time he was alone. 

    —  Return to the Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and the Creation of Appleby Michael Moritz.

    (15:00) If the ultimate decision maker is involved every step of the way the quality of the work increases.

    (20:00) "You asked the question, What was your process like?' I kind of laugh because process is an organized way of doing things. I have to remind you, during the 'Walt Period' of designing Disneyland, we didn't have processes. We just did the work. Processes came later. All of these things had never been done before. Walt had gathered up all these people who had never designed a theme park, a Disneyland. So we're in the same boat at one time, and we figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly as we go along with it and not even discuss plans, timing, or anything. We just worked and Walt just walked around and had suggestions." — Disney's Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow. (Founders #347)

    (23:00) The further you get away from 1 the more complexity you invite in.

    (25:00) Your goal: A single idea expressed clearly.

    (26:00) Jony Ive: Steve was the most focused person I’ve met in my life

    (28:00) Editing your thinking is an act of service.

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    Michael Jordan In His Own Words

    Michael Jordan In His Own Words

    What I learned from reading Driven From Within by Michael Jordan and Mark Vancil. 

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    Episode Outline: 

    Players who practice hard when no one is paying attention play well when everyone is watching.

    It's hard, but it's fair. I live by those words. 

    To this day, I don't enjoy working. I enjoy playing, and figuring out how to connect playing with business. To me, that's my niche. People talk about my work ethic as a player, but they don't understand. What appeared to be hard work to others was simply playing for me.

    You have to be uncompromised in your level of commitment to whatever you are doing, or it can disappear as fast as it appeared. 

    Look around, just about any person or entity achieving at a high level has the same focus. The morning after Tiger Woods rallied to beat Phil Mickelson at the Ford Championship in 2005, he was in the gym by 6:30 to work out. No lights. No cameras. No glitz or glamour. Uncompromised. 

    I knew going against the grain was just part of the process.

    The mind will play tricks on you. The mind was telling you that you couldn't go any further. The mind was telling you how much it hurt. The mind was telling you these things to keep you from reaching your goal. But you have to see past that, turn it all off if you are going to get where you want to be.

    I would wake up in the morning thinking: How am I going to attack today?

    I’m not so dominant that I can’t listen to creative ideas coming from other people. Successful people listen. Those who don’t listen, don’t survive long.

    In all honesty, I don't know what's ahead. If you ask me what I'm going to do in five years, I can't tell you. This moment? Now that's a different story. I know what I'm doing moment to moment, but I have no idea what's ahead. I'm so connected to this moment that I don't make assumptions about what might come next, because I don't want to lose touch with the present. Once you make assumptions about something that might happen, or might not happen, you start limiting the potential outcomes. 

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    Founders
    en-usMay 12, 2024

    #348 The Financial Genius Behind A Century of Wall Street Scandals: Ivar Kreuger

    #348 The Financial Genius Behind A Century of Wall Street Scandals: Ivar Kreuger

    What I learned from reading The Match King: Ivar Kreuger, The Financial Genius Behind a Century of Wall Street Scandals by Frank Partnoy. 

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    Episode Outline: 

    1. Ivar was charismatic. His charisma was not natural. Ivar spent hours every day just preparing to talk. He practiced his lines for hours like great actors do.

    2. Ivar’s first pitch was simple, easy to understand, and legitimate: By investing in Swedish Match, Americans could earn profits from a monopoly abroad.

    3. Joseph Duveen noticed that Europe had plenty of art and America had plenty of money, and his entire astonishing career was the product of that simple observation. — The Days of Duveen by S.N. Behrman.  (Founders #339 Joseph Duveen: Robber Baron Art Dealer)

    4. Ivar studied Rockefeller and Carnegie: Ivar's plan was to limit competition and increase profits by securing a monopoly on match sales throughout the world, mimicking the nineteenth century oil, sugar, and steel trusts.

    5. When investors were manic, they would purchase just about anything. But during the panic that inevitably followed mania, the opposite was true. No one would buy.

    6. The problem isn’t getting rich. The problem is staying sane. — Charlie Munger

    7. Ivar understood human psychology. If something is limited and hard to get to that increases desire. This works for both products (like a Ferrari) and people (celebrities). Ivar was becoming a business celebrity.

    8.  I’ve never believed in risking what my family and friends have and need in order to pursue what they don't have and don't need. — The Essays of Warren Buffett by Warren Buffett and Lawrence Cunningham. (Founders #227)

    9. Great ideas are simple ideas: Ivar hooked Durant with his simple, brilliant idea: government loans in exchange for match monopolies.

    10. Ivar wrote to his parents, "I cannot believe that I am intended to spend my life making money for second-rate people. I shall bring American methods back home. Wait and see - I shall do great things. I'm bursting with ideas. I am only wondering which to carry out first."

    11. Ivar’s network of companies was far too complex for anyone to understand: It was like a corporate family tree from hell, and it extended into obscurity.

    12. “Victory in our industry is spelled survival.”   —Steve Jobs

    13. Ivar's financial statements were sloppy and incomplete. Yet investors nevertheless clamored to buy his securities.

    14. As more cash flowed in the questions went away. This is why Ponzi like schemes can last so long. People don’t want to believe. They don’t want the cash to stop.

    15. A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders #222)

    16.  A summary of Charlie Munger on incentives:

    1. We all underestimate the power of incentives.
    2. Never, ever think about anything else before the power of incentives.
    3. The most important rule: get the incentives right.

    17. This is nuts! Fake phones and hired actors!

    Next to the desk was a table with three telephones. The middle phone was a dummy, a non-working phone that Ivar could cause to ring by stepping on a button under the desk. That button was a way to speed the exit of talkative visitors who were staying too long. Ivar also used the middle phone to impress his supporters. When Percy Rockefeller visited Ivar pretended to receive calls from various European government officials, including Mussolini and Stalin. That evening, Ivar threw a lavish party and introduced Rockefeller to numerous "ambassadors" from various countries, who actually were movie extras he had hired for the night.

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    #347 How Walt Disney Built His Greatest Creation: Disneyland

    #347 How Walt Disney Built His Greatest Creation: Disneyland

    What I learned from reading Disney's Land: Walt Disney and the Invention of the Amusement Park That Changed the World by Richard Snow. 

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    (8:00) When in 1955 we heard that Disney had opened an amusement park under his own name, it appeared certain that we could not look forward to anything new from Mr. Disney.

    We were quite wrong.

    He had, instead, created his masterpiece.

    (13:00) This may be the greatest product launch of all time: He had run eight months of his television program. He hadn't named his new show Walt Disney Presents or The Wonderful World of Walt Disney.

    It was called simply Disneyland, and every weekly episode was an advertisement for the still unborn park.

    (15:00) Disneyland is the extension of the powerful personality of one man.

    (15:00) The creation of Disneyland was Walt Disney’s personal taste in physical form.

    (24:00) How strange that the boss would just drop it. Walt doesn’t give up. So he must have something else in mind.

    (26:00) Their mediocrity is my opportunity. It is an opportunity because there is so much room for improvement.

    (36:00) Roy Disney never lost his calm understanding that the company's prosperity rested not on the rock of conventional business practices, but on the churning, extravagant, perfectionist imagination of his younger brother.

    (41:00) Walt Disney’s decision to not relinquish his TV rights to United Artists was made in 1936. This decision paid dividends 20 years later. Hold on. Technology -- developed by other people -- constantly benefited Disney's business. Many such cases in the history of entrepreneurship.

    (43:00) Walt Disney did not look around. He looked in. He looked in to his personal taste and built a business that was authentic to himself.

    (54:00) "You asked the question, What was your process like?' I kind of laugh because process is an organized way of doing things. I have to remind you, during the 'Walt Period' of designing Disneyland, we didn't have processes.

    We just did the work. Processes came later. All of these things had never been done before.

    Walt had gathered up all these people who had never designed a theme park, a Disneyland.

    So we're in the same boat at one time, and we figure out what to do and how to do it on the fly as we go along with it and not even discuss plans, timing, or anything.

    We just worked and Walt just walked around and had suggestions."

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    Related Episodes

    #254 John D. Rockefeller: The Founding Father of the Rockefellers

    #254 John D. Rockefeller: The Founding Father of the Rockefellers

    What I learned from reading John D: The Founding Father of the Rockefellers by David Freeman Hawke.

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    [0:07] He transmitted messages in code and secrecy covered all of his operations.

    [0:39]  Rockefeller compared himself to Napoleon.

    [2:20] He could think quicker and along more individual and original lines than any of them.

    [2:35] It is always hard to successfully control what you don't understand.

    [3:32] Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller by Ron Chernow. (Founders #248)

    [7:27] By the time I was a man — long before it —I had learned the underlying principles of business and the rules of business as well as many men acquire them by the time they are 40. I needed no one to advise me about the nature of transactions with which I had been carrying on since childhood.

    [8:59] Random Reminiscences of Men and Events by John D. Rockefeller. (Founders #148)

    [10:55] You should try to expose yourself to experiences that are slightly ahead of your skillset or understanding and you should do so constantly.

    [13:48] A veteran of long-distance provider MCI, Price came to Amazon in 1999. He blundered early by suggesting in a meeting that Amazon executives who traveled frequently should be permitted to fly business-class. Bezos often said he wanted his colleagues to speak their minds, but at times it seemed he did not appreciate being personally challenged. “You would have thought I was trying to stop the Earth from tilting on its axis,” Price says, recalling that moment with horror years later. “Jeff slammed his hand on the table and said, ‘That is not how an owner thinks! That’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard.’ — The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon by Brad Stone (Founders #179)

    [18:42] He saw that posted rates, supposedly fixed, could also be negotiated. All was not as it seemed on the outside.

    [20:45] He was the greatest borrower I ever saw.

    [22:12] What if the president of a bank refused to make me a loan? That was nothing. That made no difference to me; simply meant that I must look elsewhere until I got what I wanted.

    [26:07] Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire by James Wallace and Jim Erickson (Founders #140)

    [26:41] Lost from view is the Rockefeller that Cleveland knew in the 1860s— a vigorous, alert gentleman with a quiet, but extraordinary personality.

    [29:10] Small egos do not build giant companies.

    [30:23] When Money Was In Fashion: Henry Goldman, Goldman Sachs, and the Founding of Wall Street by June Breton Fisher. (Founders #255)

    [33:10] The customer-experience path we've chosen requires us to have an efficient cost structure. The good news for shareowners is that we see much opportunity for improvement in that regard. Everywhere we look we find what experienced Japanese manufacturers would call muda, or waste.* I find this incredibly energizing. I see it as potential-years and years of variable and fixed productivity gains and more efficient, higher velocity, more flexible capital expenditures. — Invent and Wander: The Collected Writings of Jeff Bezos (Founders #155)

    [34:54] Other refiners groused about these restrictions, but in general they accepted them as facts to live with. Rockefeller refused to do so.

    [38:55] Last Train to Paradise: Henry Flagler and the Spectacular Rise and Fall of the Railroad that Crossed an Ocean by Les Standiford. (Founders #247)

    [40:15] You don’t want turnover on your core product team. Knowledge compounds. Don’t interrupt the compounding. — Softwar: An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison and Oracle by Matthew Symonds (Founders #124)

    [47:47] 1. You raise money so you can increase production. 2. Use your increased production to get better rates on transportation than other refiners. 3. Use your increased profits —because you have better transportation —to buy your competitors. 4. You continue to find secret sources of income.

    [55:23] Most simply doubted that Rockefeller's plan would work. John, it cannot be done, they said.

    [56:13] It was ruthless efficiency and hyper competence.

    [1:00:07] Rockefeller loves secret allies.

    [1:00:31] The secret ownership of other companies was so well preserved that often a refiner enraged by Standard’s ruthless tactics would refuse its offer to buy him out and sell instead to a local competitor—unaware that he had in fact sold out to Standard.

    [1:02:01] He believed that Standard Oil stock is the most valuable thing in the world to own and always bought more of it.

    [1:05:57] Check out how Rockefeller turns an expense into a profit center: Standard purchased a half interest in Chess, Carley & Company, the largest distributor of refined oil to the South and Southwest. Together they purchased a number of the newly introduced bulk tank cars. Chess-Carley shipped turpentine from southern pine forests to Cleveland, where the cars were emptied and the turpentine was sold in the local market. The tank cars were then filled with kerosene and sent back to Louisville for distribution. In a single swoop the huge expense of shipment by barrels had been eliminated.

    [1:09:22] He proceeded in the same steady, methodical way that a farmer plowed a field.

    [1:13:47] The danger Potts and the Pennsylvania railroad posed to his creation convinced Rockefeller that the time had come to pick a fight with the world's largest industrial corporation.

    [1:23:20] Rockefeller would have horse-drawn carriages drive up and down the streets and sell oil directly.

    [1:28:28] I think it is fair to say that the strong men who were competitors in the oil refining business, the aggressive men in the best financial condition, and the most intelligent, indeed the class of men who would be most likely to survive in the competitive struggle, were the men who were most likely to take up our idea of cooperation.

    [1:33:09] Dark Genius of Wall Street: The Misunderstood Life of Jay Gould, King of the Robber Barons by Edward J. Renehan Jr.

    [1:35:38] Jay Gould was the single most unsettling force ever to appear on the American industrial scene.

    [1:36:22] Among wheelers and dealers of his day Gould had no peer.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

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    #98 Enzo Ferrari (the making of an automobile empire)

    #98 Enzo Ferrari (the making of an automobile empire)

    What I learned from reading Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte.

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    [0:01] Ferrari was animated by an extraordinary passion that led him to build a product with no equal

    [3:52] Lee Iacocca on why Enzo Ferrari will go as the greatest car manufacturer in history: "Ferrari spent every dollar chasing perfection." 

    [8:50] Business lessons from his father  

    [11:47] Enzo Ferrari was not interested in school. He wanted to start working immediately. 

    [16:36] The deaths of his father and brother 

    [18:20] No job. No money. No connections. A young man desperate to succeed in life. 

    [23:06] He learned something that he would never forget for the rest of his life: Not even the best driver had any chance of victory if he was not at the wheel of the best car

    [24:20] Starting his first business which ends in bankruptcy.

    [28:31] Enzo learned from those who already accomplished what he was trying to do. 

    [31:10] He does the best possible job at whatever task he is given. Even if he doesn't want to do it. Enzo focuses on being useful. 

    [33:35] A young Enzo Ferrari is plagued with doubts and close to a nervous breakdown. 

    [38:28] The large leave gaps for the small: The start of Scuderia Ferrari. 

    [49:38] Enzo Ferrari at 33 years old. 

    [51:30] For Enzo Ferrari it was always day 1.

    [52:33] Alfa Romeo pulls the plug/the end of Scuderia Ferrari, the birth of Ferrari.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested so my poor wallet suffers. ” — Gareth

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    #249 Steve Jobs In His Own Words

    #249 Steve Jobs In His Own Words

    What I learned from reading I, Steve: Steve Jobs In His Own Words by George Beahm.

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    [1:05]

    On Steve Jobs

    #5 Steve Jobs: The Biography
    #19 Becoming Steve Jobs: The Evolution of a Reckless Upstart into a Visionary Leader
    #76 Return To The Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and The Creation of Apple
    #77 Steve Jobs & The NeXT Big Thing
    #204 Inside Steve Jobs' Brain
    #214 Steve Jobs: The Exclusive Biography
    #235 To Pixar And Beyond: My Unlikely Journey with Steve Jobs to Make Entertainment History

    Bonus Episodes on Steve Jobs

    Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success (Between #112 and #113)
    Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs (Between #110 and #111)

    On Jony Ive and Steve Jobs

    #178 Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Products

    On Ed Catmull and Steve Jobs

    #34 Creativity Inc: Overcoming The Unseen Forces That Stand In The Way of True Inspiration

    On Steve Jobs and several other technology company founders

    #157 The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution

    #208 In the Company of Giants: Candid Conversations With the Visionaries of the Digital World

    [3:13] We're not going to be the first to this party, but we're going to be the best.

    [4:54] Company Focus: We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. We just want to make great products.

    [5:06] The roots of Apple were to build computers for people, not for corporations. The world doesn't need another Dell or Compaq.

    [5:52] Nearly all the founders I’ve read about have a handful of ideas/principles that are important to them and they just repeat and pound away at them forever.

    [7:00] You can oftentimes arrive at some very elegant and simple solutions. Most people just don't put in the time or energy to get there.

    [8:09] I think of Founders as a tool for working professionals. And what that tool does is it gets ideas from the history of entrepreneurship into your brain so then you can use them in your work. It just so happens that a podcast is a great way to achieve that goal.

    [8:48] Tim Ferriss Podcast #596 with Ed Thorp

    [8:50] A Man for All Markets: From Las Vegas to Wall Street, How I Beat the Dealer and the Market by Ed Thorp. (Founders 222)

    [10:43] In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains and the sofa. But to me, nothing could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the fundamental soul of a man-made creation that ends up expressing itself in successive outer layers of the product or service.

    [12:05] The Essential Difference: The Lisa people wanted to do something great. And the Mac people want to do something insanely great. The difference shows.

    [14:21] Sure, what we do has to make commercial sense, but it's never the starting point. We start with the product and the user experience.

    [15:57] Becoming Steve Jobs: The Evolution of a Reckless Upstart into a Visionary Leader by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli. (Founders #19)

    [16:41] We had a passion to do this one simple thing.

    [16:51] And that's really important because he's saying I wasn't trying to build the biggest company. I wasn't trying to build a trillion dollar company. It wasn't doing any of that. Those things happen later as a by-product of what I was actually focused on, which is just building the best computer that I wanted to use.

    [17:14] In the Company of Giants: Candid Conversations With the Visionaries of the Digital World by Rama Dev Jager and Rafael Ortiz.  (Founders #208 )

    [17:41] It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you're doing. Picasso had a saying: good artists copy, great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.

    [20:29] Our belief was that if we kept putting great products in front of customers, they would continue to open their wallets.

    [21:06]  A Mind at Play: How Claude Shannon Invented the Information Age by Jimmy Soni and Rob Goodman (Founders #95) “A very small percentage of the population produces the greatest proportion of the important ideas. There are some people if you shoot one idea into the brain, you will get half an idea out. There are other people who are beyond this point at which they produce two ideas for each idea sent in.”

    [22:29] Edwin land episodes:

    Insisting On The Impossible: The Life of Edwin Land and Instant: The Story of Polaroid (Founders #40)

    The Instant Image: Edwin Land and The Polaroid Experience by Mark Olshaker. (Founders #132)

    Land’s Polaroid: A Company and The Man Who Invented It by Peter C. Wensberg. (Founders #133)

    A Triumph of Genius: Edwin Land, Polaroid, and the Kodak Patent War by Ronald K. Fierstein. (Founders #134)

    [25:01] Macintosh was basically this relatively small company in Cupertino, California, taking on the goliath, IBM, and saying "Wait a minute, your way is wrong. This is not the way we want computers to go. This is not the legacy we want to leave. This is not what we want our kids to be learning. This is wrong and we are going to show you the right way to do it and here it is and it is so much better.

    [27:47] Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Productsby Leander Kahney. (
    (Founders #178)

    [29:00] Enzo Ferrari: Power, Politics, and the Making of an Automobile Empire by Luca Dal Monte (Founders #98)

    [34:39] On meeting his wife, Laurene: I was in the parking lot, with the key in the car, and I thought to myself: If this is my last night on earth, would I rather spend it at a business meeting or with this woman? I ran across the parking lot, asked her if she'd have dinner with me. She said yes, we walked into town, and we've been together ever since.

    [37:26] It's not about pop culture, and it's not about fooling people, and it's not about convincing people that they want something they don't. We figure out what we want. And I think we're pretty good at having the right discipline to think through whether a lot of other people are going to want it, too. That's what we get paid to do.

    [41:29] Constellation Software Inc. President's Letters by Mark Leonard. (Founders #246)

    [42:30] Made in Japan: Akio Morita and Sony by Akio Morita. (Founders #102)

    [44:36] Victory in our industry is spelled survival.

    [45:21] Once you get into the problem you see that it's complicated, and you come up with all these convoluted solutions. That's where most people stop, and the solutions tend to work for a while. But the really great person will keep going, find the underlying problem, and come up with an elegant solution that works on every level.

    [48:15] Churchill by Paul Johnson (Founders #225)

    [48:25] I would trade all my technology for an afternoon with Socrates.

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    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast

    #132 Edwin Land (Steve Jobs's Hero)

    #132 Edwin Land (Steve Jobs's Hero)

    What I learned from reading The Instant Image: Edwin Land and the Polaroid Experience by Mark Olshaker. 

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    [1:42] The word “problem” had completely departed from Edwin land's vocabulary to be replaced by the word “opportunity”. 

    [2:01] What was it about this man and his company that allowed such confidence and seeming lack of concern with the traditional top priorities of American business? 

    [2:38] There is something unique about Polaroid having to do both with the human dimension of the company, and with a unity of vision of its founder and guiding genius.  

    [3:36] Perhaps the single most important aspect of Land's character is his ability to regard things around him in a new and totally different way.  

    [4:14] Right from the beginning of his career Land had paid scant attention to what experts had to say, trusting his own instincts instead.  

    [4:49] Land has always believed that for any item sufficiently ingenious and intriguing, a new market could be created. Conventional wisdom has little capacity with which to evaluate a market that did not exist prior to the product that defines it. 

    [5:21] He feels that creativity is an individual thing. Not generally applicable to group generation. 

    [5:52] Land is a man deeply caught up in the creative potential of the individual. 

    [6:33] An institution is the lengthened shadow of one man. 

    [7:43] Apple founder Steve Jobs once hailed Edwin Land, the founder of Polaroid and the father of instant photography, as "a national treasure" and once confessed to a reporter that meeting Land was "like visiting a shrine." By his own admission, Jobs modeled much of his own career after Land’s. Both Jobs and Land stand out today as unique and towering figures in the history of technology. Neither had a college degree, but both built highly successful and innovative organizations. Jobs and Land were both perfectionists with an almost fanatic attentiveness to detail, in addition to being consummate showmen and instinctive marketers. In many ways, Edwin Land was the original Steve Jobs.  

    [8:36] There's a rule that they don't teach you at the Harvard business school. It is, if anything is worth doing it's worth doing to excess

    [11:22] Steve Jobs: I always thought of myself as a humanities person as a kid, but I liked electronics. Then I read something that one of my heroes, Edwin Land of Polaroid, said about the importance of people who could stand at the intersection of humanities and sciences. And I decided that's what I wanted to do.  

    [12:51] In a world full of cooks, Edwin Land was a chef. [Link to The Cook and The Chef: Elon Musk’s Secret Sauce]  

    [19:34] Land was asked what he wanted to be when he was younger: I had two goals. To be the world's greatest scientist and to be the world's greatest novelist. 

    [21:28] Everyone acknowledged that the future of Polaroid corporation would be determined by what went on in the brain of Edwin Land. 

    [22:01] My motto is very personal and may not fit anyone else or any other company. It is: Don't do anything that someone else can do.  

    [22:54] Fortunately our company has been one which has been dedicated throughout its life to making only things which others can not make.  

    [25:06] Land had far more faith in his own potential, and that of the company he inspired, than did any of the experts looking in from the outside.  

    [27:30] Polaroid failed to build a successful company by selling to other businesses: Each [product] would have involved millions of dollars in revenue for the company, but each invention involved a certain degree of transformation of an existing industry controlled by an existing power structure. From this Land realizes he needs to control the relationship with the customer. He realizes he needs to sell directly to the end user

    [36:16] Edwin Land is inspired by, and learned from, people that came before him. One example of this is Alexander Graham Bell. Edwin Land is not worried about the marketing [of a new product] because Bell went through the same thing: Land apparently lost little sleep over the initial situation, calling to mind that the same sort of reaction had greeted the public introduction of Bell's telephone, 70 years earlier. The telephone had been a dominant symbol in Land's thinking. He began making numerous connections between his camera and the telephone.  

    [40:16] Over the years, I have learned that every significant invention has several characteristics. By definition it must be startling, unexpected, and must come into a world that is not prepared for it. If the world were prepared for it, it would not be much of an invention.  

    [40:46] It is the public's role to resist [a new invention, a new product/service]. 

    [41:29] It took us a lifetime to understand that if we're to make a new commodity —a commodity of beauty —then we must be prepared for the extensive teaching program needed to prepare society for the magnitude of our invention

    [45:12] Only the individual— and not the large group— can see a part of the world in a totally new and different way.  

    [48:08] Land's view is that a company should be scientifically daring and financially conservative. 

    [50:30] To understand more about every aspect of light, Edwin Land read every single book on light that was available in the New York City Public Library. That reminded me of one of my favorite lectures ever: Running Down A Dream: How to Succeed and Thrive in a Career You Love

    [51:59] Land on the problem with formal education: Young people for the most part —unless they are geniuses— after a very short time in college, give up any hope of being individually great. 

    [54:16] Among all the components and Land's intellectual arsenal, the chief one seems to be simple concentration.  

    I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers.”— Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book. It's good for you. It's good for Founders. A list of all the books featured on Founders Podcast.

    #245 Rick Rubin (In the Studio)

    #245 Rick Rubin (In the Studio)

    What I learned from reading Rick Rubin: In the Studio by Jake Brown.

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    Rick Rubin on Lex Fridman Podcast #275

    Rick Rubin on The Peter Attia Drive Podcast #57

    Shangri-La Documentary

    Rick’s podcast Broken Record

    [1:39] Decoded by Jay Z. (Founders #238)

    [3:19] Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

    [3:31] His goal is to record music in its most basic and purest form. No extra bells and whistles. All wheat, no chaff.

    [5:42] Dr. Land was saying: “I could see what the Polaroid camera should be. It was just as real to me as if it was sitting in front of me before I had ever built one.” And Steve said: “Yes, that’s exactly the way I saw the Macintosh.” He said if I asked someone who had only used a personal calculator what a Macintosh should be like they couldn’t have told me. There was no way to do consumer research on it so I had to go and create it and then show it to people and say now what do you think?” Both of them had this ability to not invent products, but discover products. Both of them said these products have always existed — it’s just that no one has ever seen them before. We were the ones who discovered them. The Polaroid camera always existed and the Macintosh always existed — it’s a matter of discovery.

    [7:31] My goal is to just get out of the way and let the people I'm working with be the best versions of themselves.

    [7:50] Berkshire Hathaway Letters to Shareholders 1965-2018 by Warren Buffett (Founders #88)

    [11:26] In-N-Out Burger: A Behind-the-Counter Look at the Fast-Food Chain That Breaks All the Rules by Stacy Perman. (Founders #244)

    [14:13] “Designing a product is keeping 5,000 things in your brain and fitting them all together in new and different ways.” —Steve Jobs

    [16:00] Less is more but you have to do more to get to less.

    [16:25] Against The Odds: An Autobiography by James Dyson and reading A History of Great Inventions by James Dyson. (Founders #200)

    [17:56] Rubin's most valuable quality is his own confidence.

    [20:57]  If we're going to do this, let's aim for greatness. You have to believe what you were doing is the most important thing in the world.

    [21:29] Damn Right: Behind the Scenes with Berkshire Hathaway Billionaire Charlie Munger by Janet Lowe. (Founders #221) “Everybody engaged in complicated work needs colleagues. Just the discipline of having to put your thoughts in order with somebody else is a very useful thing.”

    [24:24] On being a reducer —not a producer: Often in the studio there will be the idea to add layers to make it seem bigger. Sometimes the more things you add, the smaller it gets. A lot of it is counterintuitive. You need to discover it in practice.

    [27:10] I want to play loud. I want to be heard. And I want all to know I'm not one of the herd.

    [36:16] There were no stars in rap music. It was really just a work of passion. Everyone who was doing it was doing it because they loved it, not because anyone thought it was a career.

    [38:12] Krush Groove YouTube link

    [38:47] Russell really cared about finding new ways to expose their music to a bigger audience.

    [39:03] Bloomberg by Michael Bloomberg.  (Founders #228)

    [44:19] A handmade product at scale.

    [48:23] Rap music as recorded work was just eight years old.

    [50:06] Q: Do you have an engine of constant dissatisfaction. Self criticism that I could have done better? A: No. I’m pleased with the work that we did. Excited to keep working. It’s fun. I don’t know what else I’d do with myself. I like making things, it’s fun. I feel like it’s my reason to be on the planet so I just keep doing it. If it could be better I would have kept working on it. If it could be better it’s not done. I’ve done everything I can to make it the best it can be. I can’t do more than that so there is nothing to be critical of. It is almost like a diary entry. Everything we make is a reflection in a moment in time. Could be a day, could be a year.

    [52:54] These things that we don't understand and cannot explain happen regularly.

    [58:33] To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.

    [58:58] He's living in four different centuries at once.

    [1:01:02] I believe in you so much, I'm going to make you believe in you.

    [1:03:07] Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire by James Wallace and Jim Erickson (Founders #140)  Gates and Allen were convinced the computer industry was about to reach critical mass, and when it exploded it would usher in a technological revolution of astounding magnitude. They were on the threshold of one of those moments when history held its breath... and jumped, as it had done with the development of the car and the airplane. They could either lead the revolution or be swept along by it.

    [1:05:35] The newest sounds have a tendency to sound old when the next new sound comes along. But a grand piano sounded great 50 years ago and will sound great 50 years from now. I try to make records that have a timeless quality.

    [1:13:58] Mozart: A Life by Paul Johnson. (Founders #240)

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    “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested, so my poor wallet suffers. ”— Gareth

    Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast